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BK LIM

Disasters know no boundaries; saving Mother Earth is our collective responsibility.
Articles Posted: 105  Links Seeded: 412
Member Since: 7/2010  Last Seen: 5/16/2012

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The little Mole Hill that is really a Mountain

Tue Sep 7, 2010 3:47 PM EDT
environment, investigation, bp, oil-spill, explosion, gulf, fed, gulf-oil-spill, gulf-of-mexico, gulf-coast, leak, noaa, bp-oil-spill, oil-leak, deepwater, blowout, gulf-oil, leaking, bop, gulf-oil-spill-horizon, bk-lim, geohazards, s20bc
By BK Lim
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(6 Sept 2010, hydrocomgeo@gmail.com).

Very often we make a mountain out of a mole hill but in the BP’s Macondo bathymetry it is just the opposite. The reasons for this willful negligence are already given in previous articles. This posting is to illustrate why we do not get it right when looking at things from the wrong perspective.

Figure 116-1 shows the satellite image of the domes surrounding the Macondo site. The rectangular box (5 x 6 km) is the outline of the Macondo site. You will see that wells A, B and S20BC are all concentrated on the tiny red dot at the middle of a convex edge of the “L-shaped” escarpment which is approximately 12 km by 5.5 km.

There are probably some good geological reasons for this odd shape “low rise (BP’s assessment)” escarpment but that is the subject matter for future discussion. Even from the reconnaissance satellite image, the terrain can be seen to slope down from the point marked X. Whether we call this a cone, dome or just plain escarpment is immaterial, since the whole “escarpment” is by itself a raised landform. Raised landform is either “the seafloor manifestation of some underlying geological events or continuing processes” or “a product of erosion where the underlying formation is more resistant than the surrounding”. However the former is more likely given a number of tell tale features.

It is easy to dismiss this “escarpment” as insignificant, given its smaller extent and lower relief than its adjacent giant neighbours; Whiting Dome, Gloria Dome and Michell Dome. But a “mound” with a radius of 3 to 4.5 km and a height exceeding 500 ft (150m) is not insignificant by most geohazards assessment standards. The worst possible well location could not have been chosen for Well A, Well B and S20BC, even on the basis of this satellite imagery reconnaissance.

In my opinion, the erroneous and fraudulent Macondo bathymetry had a terribly misleading effect. Anyone looking at the highly smoothened Macondo bathymetry would be inclined to think that well A, Well B and S20BC were located on a gentle uniform slope. But the “smoothened seafloor morphology” belies the apparent sharp transition from sloping to flat seafloor, the distinct convex outline of the base of the escarpment and the 3º general slope.

Figure 116-2 shows the satellite image background with the superimposed Macondo bathymetry. The discrepancies are startling even to the untrained eyes. The dark blue shadows conjure an image of an irregular raised landform, possibly faulted close to the seafloor. An MBES (multibeam echo sounder) image acquired at 50 m above the seabed would have yielded a lot of seabed features (not featureless as asserted by BP) that could have averted the terrible Oil Spill Disaster. This disaster need not have happened. It could have been easily averted given due diligence in the geohazards assessment.

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  • Public Discussion (98)
BK Lim

Strange but true. This is one mega-disaster that could have been averted given due diligence in geohazards assessment.

  • 11 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 3:53 PM EDT
Kathy-1571680

Wow this is so interesting. Thanks for publishing this.

  • 6 votes
#1.1 - Thu Sep 9, 2010 1:19 AM EDT
BK Lim

Glad to share these info, Kathy. Thanks for reading.

  • 6 votes
#1.2 - Thu Sep 9, 2010 1:42 AM EDT
Reply
Dowser

Wonderful article! I have a real feeling that BP knew, but didn't want to pay attention to what was happening.

Thanks for publishing this!

  • 11 votes
#2 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 7:35 PM EDT
cookin mama

but that would have cost more to do things right.

  • 11 votes
#2.1 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 7:40 PM EDT
Dowser

Oh yes! Right meaning-- don't drill there... :-)

  • 11 votes
#2.2 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 7:43 PM EDT
BK Lim

Prevention is better (cheaper, less destructive in every sense) than cure. More importantly are there any more out there?

  • 12 votes
#2.3 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 12:49 AM EDT
cookin mama

that is a very good question?

  • 10 votes
#2.4 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 1:01 AM EDT
BK Lim

yes cookin mama.

BP is coming out with its own investigation report today, no doubt trying to push the blame to Transocean and Halliburton. So the blame game begins.

  • 11 votes
#2.5 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 1:11 AM EDT
Dowser

I, too, wonder how many other sites are inherently hazardous. I'm beginning to feel that we need to shut all oil production down out there eventually. But it will take some time to gear up for another form of energy use.

The only thing that I don't like about wind-generated power is that birds get all tangled up in them, and are killed. We've got to come up with something that would deter them from getting too close. Sorry, that is off topic...

I don't trust anything that BP says, if only because they have lied to us so frequently, and have not been forthcoming with any information. Straightforward answers would have made me feel much better about the company, and I would have very likely been more amenable to cutting them some slack. However, right now, I want to fine them into oblivion.

Oh well. Once again, I'm glad that I am not a judge, and don't have to make these awful decisions.

  • 12 votes
#2.6 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 9:00 AM EDT
BK Lim

Dowser,

I agree with you. Even with new energy sources, there will be new safety concerns if we continue with this wilful negligence without regard to safety.

Before we can wean ourselves from oil, we need to have independent checks on past records whether due diligence had been practised in the hazards assessment. If it is like BP's downplayed assessment, then they must be held accountable. That will keep them straight and prevent this from happening again. I am only using hazards assessment as it is the field I am familiar with. I am sure it is also happening in other sections.

We have to cut down on the waste but not on the bare essentials.

  • 7 votes
#2.7 - Thu Sep 9, 2010 1:56 AM EDT
Dowser

Absolutely! Now they are talking about extracting natural gas using methods that will contaminate groundwater, etc. This needs to stop!

As Barney Fife said, "Nip it in the bud!"

It seems that every step we take, is really a step backward in the development of 'new' technology.

  • 8 votes
#2.8 - Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:47 PM EDT
bore-head007

Dowser, are you talking about hydrofracting?

This may interest you.

http://bore-head007.newsvine.com/_news/2010/09/06/5056979-cape-wind-power-deal-brings-fight-to-utility-panel-bostonheraldcom

  • 5 votes
#2.9 - Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:18 PM EDT
Dowser

Yes, that is exactly what I am speaking of-- everything I've read about it, environmentally, it is a very bad thing!

Thanks for the link, dear friend!

  • 5 votes
#2.10 - Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:42 PM EDT
bore-head007

I did some well drilling in the seventys, as a helper. We had some deep dry holes, and the customers were strapped, financialy. We tried to dynamite a couple, with not good results, and we also set a rig up on a couple, and just beffore we sealed of the well with the rig, we dumped bunches of dry ice down the hole. The results were questionable.

I noticed a local driller had a truck, and it was lettered specificly to display Hydrofracking as a service. The method seems to be common in NE. What say ye?

  • 3 votes
#2.11 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:40 AM EDT
Dowser

I think what they are talking about is a completely different animal from what you and I would think of when we say hydrofracking or to "fract" a well. I thought the same thing as you are thinking, before I started reading about it. I really dismissed it as a, "So?"

Basically, it is more like secondary recovery water flooding, pumped in under high pressure, but using some very strong acids and other chemicals to eat the rock out. When the extremely acidic and poisonous goop hits a real fracture or joint, it shoots upwards, and even eats through shale caps, etc. That is how it gets into the groundwater and up to water wells that people use.

I've read about it, some, and it just made me sick. I hope that the EPA doesn't allow it, for any reason. They have some pretty strict regulations about water flooding, and I can only hope that it will apply to this new technique.

Here is just one article-- I've just scanned this one. I have a file folder somewhere where I printed up a whole bunch of articles. But, with all the computer mess, it is lost in my office somewhere... I'll keep looking.

  • 5 votes
#2.12 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:47 AM EDT
bore-head007

I see the things have advanced sinse our experiments in trying to yield H2O.

Pumping chemicals into the ground is just plain wrong. And dangerous.

  • 5 votes
#2.13 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:52 AM EDT
Dowser

Yeah... It is very different from what we're used to. It is just plain wrong and very dangerous! :-)

That is why I've been worried about it!

  • 5 votes
#2.14 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:57 AM EDT
BK Lim

Dowser

You should seed the article and we can all comment how dangerous it is. It is definitely a No-No on my books.

  • 6 votes
#2.15 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:10 AM EDT
rls8r

If you haven't already - you may want to watch "Gasland" - a documentary on hydrofracking for natural gas. I think you can see it here (its about 24 minutes long).

  • 4 votes
#2.16 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:12 AM EDT
rls8r

Sorry - the above link is to a PBS story about the film 'Gasland' - not to the film itself. It was on HBO, but the HBO web site says that it's no longer available on TV or on its 'On Demand' capabilities. Apparently, we can buy copies of the DVD of the documentary from various places (including PBS) or rent it via NetFlix.

  • 4 votes
#2.17 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:31 AM EDT
Dowser

You can watch it, I think, on IMDB, here.

BK, for some reason, seeding articles doesn't work for me. I know I'm doing something wrong, I just don't know what! :-)

I'll try again, and we'll see, but don't expect much! :-)

  • 6 votes
#2.18 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:55 AM EDT
BK Lim

Thanks for the links. Am watching them now. Very interesting. A must see.

  • 3 votes
#2.19 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:14 AM EDT
Dowser

Well! I fixed it so that it would show up on my column and a better article is seeded... Obviously, Long Shui was helping me! :-)

  • 2 votes
#2.20 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:15 AM EDT
Reply
mstanley2265

Desk types never want to hear the real geologists most of the time...they just go for the money..sighhhh

  • 10 votes
Reply#3 - Tue Sep 7, 2010 7:44 PM EDT
BK Lim

mstanley

What we need is a balance system. Understand that TH was an aggressive and "super-star" geo that was responsible for record profit. Thus when he said "run" nobody dared to say "check first".

  • 10 votes
Reply#4 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 12:59 AM EDT
rls8r

BK Lim -

What is the source of the graphics? Are they from some report, or are they figures 116 from something that you're producing?

  • 6 votes
Reply#5 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 10:46 AM EDT
BK Lim

ris8r

The satellite image is from google earth, the comparison is merged from BP Macondo bathy. Figure 116-3 is the BP Macondo bathy without the title block. Why?

  • 6 votes
Reply#6 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 10:59 AM EDT
bore-head007

Excellent work.

  • 6 votes
#6.1 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 11:33 AM EDT
rls8r

Since the Figures were numbered 116-x, I assumed that there were at least 115 other figures, and that those figures were part of some report about the Deepwater Horizon incident. I'm not familiar with all the reports, so I was wondering if it was from a report. If it was, I'd get it and read it since it seems to address some of the issues that you do.

Otherwise - I recall encouraging you to write articles for journals, or perhaps your own monograph. I was wondering if you were doing that, and were releasing it sort of chapter-by-chapter, or issue-by-issue on Newsvine as sort of an 'early draft' to get comments. If that was the case, I'd add your name to my 'tracker' to be sure to see all the installments.

  • 7 votes
#6.2 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 12:00 PM EDT
Danese

ris8r, you make good points as well.

  • 7 votes
#6.3 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 12:02 PM EDT
BK Lim

I assumed that there were at least 115 other figures, and that those figures were part of some report about the Deepwater Horizon incident.

Gosh I did not think it that way. Your are one sharp / logical-minded analyst. So far I have written 16 including one in prep on newsvine in connection with this disaster. In my computer filing system, this was assigned as no: 100. So 16 becomes 116. Earlier figures were just numbered individually. It was getting confusing when I tried to recall or reuse the base map/images. So now the article no is prefixed to the figure no.

I was wondering if you were doing that, and were releasing it sort of chapter-by-chapter, or issue-by-issue on Newsvine as sort of an 'early draft' to get comments. If that was the case, I'd add your name to my 'tracker' to be sure to see all the installments.

I got interested in the disaster & followed the blogs like everyone else. But everyone was too focused on the blowout itself. From my past investigations, the blowout was the end result of a chain of human errors (including management & geohazards assessment) and not the root cause. If we need to prevent another one, we must look at the reason why BP chose to drill at that particular location. I would not have chosen it and if BP were to be my client, I would have recommended another one. If you stick to your professionalism, BP would have no choice but to back down. Imagine now if there was a geohazards report somewhere that recommended BP to move location because that location was unsafe. BP would be in big big trouble now.

In the past, I had been asked to amend/ revised my unsafe assessments so I know what it is like. They could have drilled away from the foothill of that escarpment and still reach the reservoir target. So it beats me why?

We (together with my colleagues) presented a paper at Perth Geohazards Seminar 25 March 2010, less than a month before this disaster and again on 12 June by myself at National Geoscience Conference in Malaysia. This paper (not on BP disaster) had warned of such disaster if geohazards assessment are carried out in such nonchalant manner is in print now. But you can read the abridged version in http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2010/07/08/4636721-the-root-causes-of-bps-oil-spill-the-imminent-threat-of-more-oil-related-disasters-part-1 and http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2010/07/13/4671812-the-imminent-threat-of-a-bps-style-disaster-in-our-midst-

No I have not prewritten a book if that what you mean. I do have a good idea what went wrong. That's why I am writing these series of articles to document my thoughts.

  • 8 votes
#6.4 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 12:56 PM EDT
rls8r

OK - I'll try to plow through your articles as I have the time. It will take me some time, however, since I'm not that familiar with the profession. I saw the abstract of the talk you gave in Malaysia, but I missed the one you mention for the Australasia Conference since Dr. Fitzpatrick was the only one credited on the Programme. Ah - ain't Conferences grand!

Keep up the good work.

  • 6 votes
#6.5 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 1:25 PM EDT
BK Lim

ris8r, the abstract was written by me but Dr Fitzpatrick presented from materials given since I could not make it to Perth.

Thanks for the encouragement.

  • 5 votes
#6.6 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 2:33 PM EDT
Reply
Danese

Wow. You have out done yourself again:) Great work.

  • 6 votes
Reply#7 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 11:24 AM EDT
BK Lim

Thanks Danese & BH.

  • 5 votes
#7.1 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 11:51 AM EDT
Reply
Steve-2203459

BK Lim....It just made sense to me. Looking at your past post "Forensic Analysis of BP's Bathymetric Chart", I realized now why we never see any oil flow from the ROV's while working on the WELL "A" coordinates. Let me clarify. I always wondered....if there is a blownout well leaking oil, why don't we see this oil flowing by the ROV's working on the WELL "A"?

Now it makes sense, the blownout well at S20BC is higher on the "MOLE HILL" than both WELL "A" and "B". When the ROV's were working on WELL "A" and showing this to the world, S20BC was leaking oil above...that is why it was not seen. How interesting. If the blowout was at either WELL "A" or "B" and BP had the ROV's working on capping a fake well that would be at location S20BC, the oil flowing from the blowout well would have been seen on the cameras of the ROV's.

  • 5 votes
Reply#8 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 1:26 PM EDT
bore-head007

BK, its paying off!

Steve , this guy is on the money, and your post just helped me get it, also.

  • 5 votes
#8.1 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 1:31 PM EDT
BK Lim

Excuse me guys (BH & Steve), which post are you talking about. I would try to write along that line.

  • 5 votes
#8.2 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 2:30 PM EDT
bore-head007

BK , you are starting to understand where my head is at, by reading my stuff. This technical stuff is hard for me to shift into, and steve gave a post that helped me get it with his realization.

  • 5 votes
#8.3 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 3:09 PM EDT
BK Lim

Steve,

Well A would have more gas than oil. One of the past comments was - why are we seeing more gas than oil leaking from Well A? Because Well A was drilled down to only 5000 ft plus. Most of the gas is coming from the "176 ft of gas-bearing Siltstone beds" probably punctured by Well B and also intercepted by faults.

If you look back the rov video from mid May to 1st week of June, most of the oil gushing out of S20BC is black. In some earlier video you can see whitish stream of gas above the black oil. The pipe looks like a casing rather than the riser.

Those who know cannot tell. The one who knows is dead. Those who "don't know" (eg Totally Obfuscated Dumpsite) can tell loudly.

  • 5 votes
#8.4 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 3:51 PM EDT
Reply
Steve-2203459

BK Lim....looking at your past post showing the location of the different wells on the HILL, and this one, it makes sense why a leaking blownout S20BC above WELL "A" did not show up on the ROV's.

IT WAS ABOVE WELL "A"

  • 5 votes
Reply#9 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 2:49 PM EDT
BK Lim

Steve the water depth at S20BC is 4970 ft (round up) and at Well A 4990 ft. How far can the ROV see? S20BC is 714 ft from Well A.

  • 5 votes
#9.1 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 3:37 PM EDT
kokohito

BK Lim

A Picture does speak a thousand words!!

Thank you for your remarkable graphic illustration.

.

  • 4 votes
#9.2 - Thu Sep 9, 2010 11:55 AM EDT
BK Lim

Glad you like it kokohito.

  • 4 votes
#9.3 - Thu Sep 9, 2010 1:12 PM EDT
Reply
Steve-2203459

BK Lim...when Matt Simmons said that the bottom of the sea floor was now full of heavy oil, I always wondered why we didn't see this oil on the ROV footage. This is when I thought the wells were at the SAME DEPTH. Imagine oil coming out of a blown well and flowing horizontally. It would have be shown on the ROV's.

But because S20BC is above WELL "A" 20 feet or so up the HILL, when the oil flows out of the well, it heads higher. This is why we did not see the oil flowing by the ROV's. Sure, it was 714 feet away, but because S20BC is higher in ELEVATION than WELL "A" it is flowing upwards and away from WELL A.

Again....I thought if a blownout well was true, we would see some of this oil showing up on the ROV's Think about two ROV's in a pool. One at one end and the other at the other end. If a bunch of RED DYE was released by the one ROV, at some point in time, it would show up at the other end by the other ROV. This is my thinking.

BECAUSE of your excellent graphics, we now know why we did not see the blownout well's oil show up at WELL "A"...it was BELOW S20BC....oil heading higher would not be seen at the WELL A coordinates.

Make Sense??

  • 6 votes
Reply#10 - Wed Sep 8, 2010 3:54 PM EDT
BK Lim

Thanks Steve. You got me on this one. Now I get it. Pardon me for being so dense.

2) If the well is open and still spewing out oil....why are we not seeing more oil on the surface of the GOM? Could the flow be slowing or did BP place something down there to make the flow move horizontally rather than vertically?

I checked back your previous question (quoted above). Now I see where you are going. It makes perfect sense now, I agree. Thanks a lot for your excellent analysis on the sub-horizontal Oil dispersion from the blown out well. It now fits nicely with the 22 miles of underwater "river of dispersed oil-water mixture" which forms between the steep and much higher Shelf edge and BP's leaking well. See alex link at : http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2010/08/27/22-mile-river-oil-bp-originates-biloxi-dome-5-7-miles-southwest-bp-3682/

  • 6 votes
#10.1 - Thu Sep 9, 2010 2:29 AM EDT
kokohito

Steve-2203459

This is my AHA moment!

You have done a great service, as I have wondered along the same line....

So this explains why the oil leak was not seen on the ROV.

Thanks Steve.

  • 4 votes
#10.2 - Thu Sep 9, 2010 11:43 AM EDT
BK Lim

Everyone should give a round of applause to Steve. We always think of fluid flowing downhill and not the other way round.

  • 5 votes
#10.3 - Thu Sep 9, 2010 1:12 PM EDT
Dowser

Bravo, Steve!

  • 3 votes
#10.4 - Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:48 PM EDT
Reply
Steve-2203459

BK Lim...you get the credit. You know its funny. I was watching those ROV's for a couple of months. I never paid any attention to the coordinates on the ROV's. It wasn't until I watched some YouTube videos and then came across your website did I realize that something fishy was going on when at one time the ROV's were at one coordinate and then later at another.

When Matt Simmons was alive and on the mainstream TV giving hell to BP and saying that the well was blown-out...I always wondered...."WHERE IN THE HELL IS ALL THIS OIL"? You watch these ROV's and the picture was CRYSTAL CLEAR. No oil clouding up the picture.

Now, that we realize that S20BC is above WELL "A" from BK Lims work, we now realize how BP made this PUBLIC STUNT work. They were lucky that S20BC's blowout was above WELL A and B. They could have not pulled it off if it was the other way around.

I still wonder just how much oil is flowing a day out of that open hole at S20BC.

A FEW MORE QUICK POINTS:

As I mentioned before, the reason why I think the US GOVT has helped coverup the BP disaster in the GOM was to cover their own AZZ. Gordon T Long has written some excellent articles on Derivatives which he explains how the bankruptcy of BP would be more devastating than the fall of Lehman Brothers;

SULTANS OF SWAP: BP Potentially More Devastating than Lehman

As horrific as the gulf environmental catastrophe is, an even more intractable and cataclysmic disaster may be looming. The yet unknowable costs associated with clean-up, litigation and compensation damages due to arguably the world's worst environmental tragedy, may be in the process of triggering a credit event by British Petroleum (BP) that will be equally devastating to global over-the-counter (OTC) derivatives. The potential contagion may eventually show that Lehman Bros. and Bear Stearns were simply early warning signals of the devastation lurking and continuing to grow unchecked in the $615T OTC Derivatives market.

What is yet unknowable is what the reality is of BP's off-balance sheet obligations and leverage positions. How many Special Purpose Entities (SPEs) is it operating? Remember, during the Enron debacle Andrew Fastow, the Enron CFO, asserted in testimony nearly 10 years ago that GE had 2500 such entities already in existence. BP has even more physical assets than Enron and GE. Furthermore, no one knows the true size of BP's OTC derivative contracts such as Interest Rate Swaps and Currency Swaps. Only the major international banks have visibility to what the collateral obligations associated with these instruments are, their credit trigger events and who the counter parties are. They are obviously not talking, but as I will explain, they are aggressively repositioning trillions of dollars in global currency, swap, derivative, options, debt and equity portfolios.

http://home.comcast.net/~lcmgroupe/2010/Article-Sultans_of_Swap-British_Petroleum.htm

If you want to read the rest of the article, you may find it very enlightening to say the least.

Lastly, the Fed announced two weeks ago that it would print money to buy US TREASURIES. This may be the final straw that breaks the camels back. Last year the Chinese said that they would dump FANNIE MAE BONDS on the market. This would have pushed up interest rates that would have destroyed the already sick housing market. The FED stepped in and bought $1.2 Trillion in FANNIE MAE BONDS. If you look at those Federal Reserve Notes you have in your Wallet or purse, you can rest assured that they are now backed by worthless overpriced FANNIE MAE REAL ESTATE.

One day the US TREASURY MARKET will crack...and when it does, money will flow into commodities like never seen before. This will be the day the US ECONOMY CRASHES, as it cannot survive on $150-$200 a barrel oil which would put gasoline somewhere at $5-$8 a gallon.

This is the very reason why I believe the US GOVT is allowing BP to get away with MURDER and the death of many parts of the GOM. If the real truth got out....it would destroy the DERIVATIVES and US TREASURY MARKET sooner than later. And a way of life here in American would be a gone forever.

  • 5 votes
Reply#11 - Thu Sep 9, 2010 6:32 PM EDT
BK Lim

Steve this is truly insightful and many thanks for making this forum complete with the financial reasons for the massive cover-up. Now that we got the head and the tail, what do we do with the body?

  • 5 votes
#11.1 - Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:29 AM EDT
Reply
Steve-2203459

Correction: Last Sentence should say AMERICA...not AMERICAN.

  • 3 votes
Reply#12 - Thu Sep 9, 2010 6:41 PM EDT
eth-2299740

BK - Ha Ha - back to my favorite topic:)

There are many people asking the same question you are:

"Now that we got the head and the tail, what do we do with the body?" (Great question by the way).

From the answers we receive it appears it's going to be an every man for himself scenario, or total capitulation of population to PTB (anything to be saved from starvation, deprivation etc)

What we do know is we have gone (been led astray) in the wrong direction for so long - it will take a miracle for the "world" to change directions. Popular analogy is the titanic.

We won't really have the answer until it occurs - unless true prophets appear from the heavens.

So what the best recommendation is - stay informed - do what you can to assure preservation for some time, and if nothing happens life goes on. If all does fall apart as predicted you won't be caught off guard like most of the world will be.

Old advice, but sound advice.

I truly believe at this point we can't change BP's and TBTF's cause they run/rule govt, therefore our destiny is set.

Although, I'll admit I am praying for a different outcome:)

  • 4 votes
Reply#13 - Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:42 AM EDT
BK Lim

ETH

Much as I want to, I am not even sure Heaven can help. We are our own worst enemies and only us can help ourselves.

  • 4 votes
#13.1 - Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:29 AM EDT
eth-2299740

BK

Correct - Heaven is not going to help us.

But - old adage applies the best: prepare for the worst, hope for the best :)

  • 4 votes
#13.2 - Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:42 AM EDT
eth-2299740

Clarification. Heaven is not going to help us.

As a student of bible prophecy for a good many years from my studies I learned there is a reason why heaven is not going to help us.

Not for discussion here, but my statement by itself was misleading.

  • 4 votes
#13.3 - Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:16 AM EDT
Reply
eth-2299740

Steve:

I too thank you for your insightful comments.

One thing I suppose I and many other end up doing is reading without thinking because there is so much to read in any given day.

I rely on others to formulate opinions, analyze and from that vantage point base my understanding. That is people like you.

Makes one mentally lazy, but that is the nature of the beast.

Many will argue that point.

But, I'm not worried about being a master of anything. Been there done that, tired.

So I am glad for minds/energy like yours and BK's. Keep up the good work.

  • 6 votes
Reply#14 - Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:44 AM EDT
BK Lim

Like others, we have only limited time on this planet. We have to do our best. If we cannot improve it, the least we can do is not destroy it beyond irreparable damage.

  • 5 votes
#14.1 - Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:34 AM EDT
eth-2299740

Unfortunately, I think the beast is unstoppable.

It will go on destroying and destroying because it's appetite for power is insatiable.

Reminds me of a cancer that destroys the body, so too BP and any entity that loses sight of humanity, morality, ethics all for what gains they can get for the short term.

I never knew it was this bad until the BP oil spill and the response to it.

  • 6 votes
#14.2 - Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:00 AM EDT
BK Lim

ETH

You are so right. I can sense there is much more to your short words.

The comments from all in this forum had been helpful in making me understand the deeper meaning of this disaster. Appreciate everyone's comments.

BTW what's your comments on this article seeded by nyghtshayde.

http://nyghtshayde.newsvine.com/_news/2010/09/03/5038875-life-on-this-earth-just-changed-the-north-atlantic-current-is-gone

  • 6 votes
#14.3 - Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:26 AM EDT
eth-2299740

BK

Read the article referred to quite some time ago. Did some research on it, and decided not to take a stance on it because it reminded me of Matt Simmons situation. Of course you know Matt was a well educated, respected, accomplished, innovative investment banker. He was ostracized for presenting information opposing BP's stance. This scientist appears credible to me, but I need more information to understand the underlying phenomena he refers to.

  • 6 votes
#14.4 - Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:47 AM EDT
BK Lim

Thanks eth. Thought so as well. But it should prod to think how fragile our world is.

  • 5 votes
#14.5 - Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:32 PM EDT
Steve-2203459

BK Lim.....very true. The system is more fragile than the public realizes. This is why I have brought up the falling EROI and the disintegrating financial situation. I have been corresponding with Charles Hall, one of the two top minds on EROI (energy returned on invested). As I mentioned in 2006 the world had invested 1 barrel of energy to get 18 for market. He now believes that number had dropped to 14/15 to 1.

Furthermore, Hall believes the minimum EROI that a business can make a profit is 6-8 to 1. The United States had a EROI of 11/1 in 2000. It would be reasonable to assume the EROI is now between 7-8 to 1. As you can see we are getting close to that MINIMUM EROI for businesses to make a profit. This is the reason why everything costs more, but wages keep falling. It is what I call the EROI SQUEEZE.

The real problem is the FIAT DOLLAR FRACTIONAL RESERVE SYSTEM that we have running the show. As most people know the BANKS have a 10% reserve requirement. That is....if they get a $10,000 deposit they can lend out $90,000. For a customer to be able to pay the principle and interest on the money they have now loaned out ($90,000) the economy has to grow. The economy can only grow if the ENERGY SOURCE grows. Now that we have a peaking of oil as well as a falling EROI, the whole system will come crashing down as there is not the GROWTH (positive GDP) to allow the FIAT DOLLAR FRACTIONAL RESERVE PONZI SYSTEM to continue. It is nothing more than a HOUSE OF CARDS.

Again...this is the very reason why I believe the US GOVT had to defend and keep BP from going bankrupt. The RIGHT and LEFT hand of the FEDERAL RESERVE, JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs have been manipulating the markets to keep the FIAT US DOLLAR alive. Goldman Sachs takes care of many of the INTEREST RATE SWAPS (as they did for GREECE in the early 2000) and US TREASURY MARKET. JP Morgan takes care of the precious metals and commodity market. JP Morgan holds the largest short position on silver compared to any in the world.

Things are falling apart as the wealthy all over the world are taking their PAPER SILVER-GOLD (contracts) and PAPER MONEY and buying real physical SILVER and GOLD. It is the taking of the physical metal off the market that is now putting extreme stress on JP Morgan's short positions in Gold and Silver. Gold and Silver will likely take off first in price, and Oil will suffer in the immediate future. But when the US TREASURY Market finally cracks, oil will more than likely go up in price double in the first day. This is when all commodities will skyrocket...as the mad dash out of worthless US Treasuries goes viral.

Lastly....yes there is a great deal of manipulation going on....in the media and in the markets. Almost 80% of the trading on the NYSE is done by computer. Money has been flowing out of the Stock Market and into US Treasuries....just like it was flocking into Mortgage Back Securities in the 2004-2006 time frame. As we all know, the MBS (mortgage backed security) collapsed and investors and countries lost billions. It is a shame that the same thing is taking place as mindless people flock into US TREASURIES.

I can see how people can blame the US GOVT for manipulating the markets and more than likely covering up the BP disaster in the GOM. But we must remember, when the $615 trillion dollar Derivatives market goes belly up, so does the US DOLLAR and most paper assets with it. That includes 401k's, CD's, Treasuries, Bonds, Annuities, Savings accounts, IRA's, Welfare, Social Security...etc and etc. I can really empathize with the US GOVT....even though I agree they are part of the problem....but we must remember....the US Citizens want their CHECK. So we can blame the US citizen as much as we can blame the US GOVT. Sounds crazy....but that is how I feel.

End of story....LOL

  • 5 votes
#14.6 - Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:04 PM EDT
eth-2299740

Steve

Nice wrap-up of current situation, but you probably realize you are in the minority.

Did you see this video? I know they criticize Erin for her part, but in short order Michael Pento summarizes the seriousness of US dilemma.

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=2162308

I remember reading a recent comment (paraphrasing): We have countries that are deeply in debt buying other countries bonds who are deeply in debt :) Yep - ain't gonna end pretty.

Which is why I sound like a parrot telling people to at least do some preparation for self-preservation.

  • 4 votes
#14.7 - Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:48 PM EDT
BK Lim

Thanks for the Econ lessons. I thought the Lehman collapse was already bad as it affected a lot of people (pensioners) holding their mini-bonds. Now where to run to?

  • 5 votes
#14.8 - Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:41 PM EDT
Reply
eth-2299740

BK

Here are the suggestions I have read online:

Have suitable land for growing food - means keeping supply of seeds. Preferably rural location.

Buy food last long time - freeze dried(20yrs shelf life), store water to hydrate food. or buy extra food normally eat and rotate diligently.

Extra water, essentials, medicine.

Prepare to live without electricity.

Have network of "people you can trust", mutual defense included.

Relax - might not happen tomorrow, next year or several years. But you will be prepared for an economic collapse.

My take is it will happen in western nations. Not sure able Asia.

  • 2 votes
Reply#15 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:32 AM EDT
BK Lim

Not so sure. When America sneezes, the world catches cold. Remember?

  • 4 votes
#15.1 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:02 AM EDT
eth-2299740

BK

Right. If it happens without warning in near future - entire world will be cast into financial chaos.

However Peter Schiff among others believe China will decouple from the USA before our unfortunate demise and depending on the time frame the IMF SDR or another basket of currencies could replace the USD.

  • 1 vote
#15.2 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:24 AM EDT
Reply
eth-2299740

Steve: This supports your assertion I believe (and Matt Simmons):

Alert: Scientists find thick layer of oil on seafloor for dozens of miles in all directions:

http://www.floridaoilspilllaw.com/alert-scientists-find-thick-layer-of-oil-on-seafloor-for-dozens-of-miles-in-all-directions-water-as-shallow-as-300-feet-photo

  • 2 votes
Reply#16 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:33 AM EDT
BK Lim

eth

Thanks for the link. And another delay in the relief well kill. IT means the gushing well is still not yet depleted?

  • 4 votes
#16.1 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:00 AM EDT
bore-head007

eth, is this seeded? If not,put it up! Now!

The government continues to deny this.

Jane Lubchenco, and Admiral Allen are BP puppets.

She must be removed as she is effecting Americans continuously in a negative way.

  • 3 votes
#16.2 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:09 AM EDT
Reply
eth-2299740

BK

oops able=about

  • 2 votes
Reply#17 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:34 AM EDT
BK Lim

Admiral Allen: Well, I will give you a range. Based on the planning that’s going on in Houston right now, the review of the science teams, there are two windows depending on how many, how much diagnostics is going to be done in the well. The early window is around the 18th of September to start the two-phase process. The later window starts on the 28th of September, and the difference in those two timelines is the amount of time they want to allow for diagnostics and fishing in the well.

Question: And then how long will that process take to complete, to actually kill the well?

Admiral Allen: The two-phase step should take about a week.

And now another delay. Why am I not surprised?

  • 4 votes
Reply#18 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:54 AM EDT
bore-head007

The Admiral is a duck out of water.

  • 2 votes
#18.1 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:12 AM EDT
BK Lim

BH

You sure have a lot of "admiration" for the Admiral.

  • 3 votes
#18.2 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:17 AM EDT
bore-head007

I go by what I see, and read BK, and I have found a couple of things that make me sceptical of the Admirals performance. For a man in charge to be lead around on a leash like a pony, I'm very disapointed in the one guy I thought would give us the straight dope.

  • 3 votes
#18.3 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:32 AM EDT
Dowser

I think he has been told, officially, to downplay the whole thing, to prevent panic in the streets... If people really knew what was going on, who knows what would happen? I, too, believe he is out of his depth, and foresee that he will be someone that will be investigated before this is out. I don't know that he is doing anything evil, i.e. taking money from BP, but I do feel that he isn't able to buck the system, and isn't about to try...

  • 3 votes
#18.4 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:51 AM EDT
BK Lim

He is a soldier at heart.

"Ours is to do and die; never to question why"

  • 4 votes
#18.5 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:16 AM EDT
Reply
eth-2299740

bore-head007

Go ahead and seed the alert link and add whatever comments you wish to add :)

  • 2 votes
Reply#19 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:01 AM EDT
bore-head007

http://bore-head007.newsvine.com/_news/2010/09/11/5091668-alert-scientists-find-layer-of-oil-on-seafloor-for-dozens-of-miles-in-all-directions-water-as-shallow-as-300-feet-photo-florida-oil-spill-law?threadId=1071206&commentId=17425866#c17425866

There it is eth. Every nugget adds up.

  • 2 votes
#19.1 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:37 AM EDT
eth-2299740

BH

Is it added? I didn't see it in the tracker. New to Newsvine.

  • 2 votes
#19.2 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:51 AM EDT
Dowser

eth, I think that borehead means to click on that link, and you'll find the article. It has been posted to NV, but it may not be on your tracker, unless you have a friend that has commented on that particular article.

Hope that helps! Good luck with NV!

  • 2 votes
#19.3 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:54 AM EDT
eth-2299740

Thanks Dowser

Clicked on link - nice!!

  • 2 votes
#19.4 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:55 AM EDT
Dowser

My pleasure, eth-- I hope you have a great day!

  • 2 votes
#19.5 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:56 AM EDT
bore-head007

I'll tell ya Dowsie Dearie, it takes a while to get the hang of this site.

It has taken me a while to get the most outta this site, and I know I don't know everything.

  • 2 votes
#19.6 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:03 PM EDT
Dowser

I still learn something new every day! Just today I managed to fix it so that one of my seeds would show up on my column... I've been messing this up now for over a year. WHAT a dope! :-)

  • 2 votes
#19.7 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:05 PM EDT
BK Lim

y'know what. I have been trying to get my favourite friend onto the avatar for close to 2 months. Then etva came along. Inspired I tried again and got it. It is embarrassing so I won't talk about it. Anyway this NV is one of the nicest place I have been on the internet space.

  • 4 votes
#19.8 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:23 PM EDT
Dowser

Well, I love your avatar!

I just changed mine, even though I knew how, I just couldn't bring myself to change it, until I found one in color! :-)

And yes, there are so many wonderful people on NV! It can be a delightful experience!

  • 3 votes
#19.9 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:35 PM EDT
Reply
eth-2299740

BK - You are welcome. According to some experts this is huge reserve.

Dowser - Big election this November

  • 2 votes
Reply#20 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:05 AM EDT
Dowser

I know, eth... It worries me to no end. And in my state, we have a very unusual candidate running for the Senate.

  • 2 votes
#20.1 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:55 AM EDT
eth-2299740

If it's Connecticut and Peter Schiff - I'd go for it.

If it's because you are worried about inexperience - tell me about our experienced leaders who don't even read what's in the bills?

If the person has 2 heads 6 arms - I think I might think on that one :) Just kidding of course.

English humor

  • 2 votes
#20.2 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:24 PM EDT
Dowser

It is Paul Rand.

Need I say more?

  • 2 votes
#20.3 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:26 PM EDT
eth-2299740

Rand Paul?

  • 2 votes
#20.4 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:31 PM EDT
eth-2299740

I am very familiar with Rand Paul, but not Paul Rand.

He is the son of Senator Ron Paul - both Doctors, both conservatives.

I have to admit I like Ron Paul and would hope Rand follow in his footsteps.

If he gets in the Senate - only time will tell.

  • 1 vote
#20.5 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:50 PM EDT
Dowser

You're right and I'm wrong-- I have done this all week!

I've been looking up names all week of the people that own property in the Wellhead Protection Area. Names are supposed to be listed Last Name, First Name. Well, (and this is not the real names, but very similar), this one fellow owns three properties. The first is listed as Deepak Tiwari Shemank, the second as Tiwari Shemank Deepak, and the third as Shemank Deepak Tiwari. Huh?

Then there is Thomas Steven. Is the man's last name Steven or Thomas?

Please forgive me that my brain mixed that up-- Rand Paul is Ron Paul's son and is running for the Senate race in KY. Ron Paul has basically gotten up to the mike and said, "don't vote for my son, Rand, he's an idiot." Its a real mess...

  • 3 votes
#20.6 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:02 PM EDT
bore-head007

Body language can tell a lot, and watching his daughters reaction to one of his speaches tells me she knows he's a couple a cards short of a deck.

  • 3 votes
#20.7 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:06 PM EDT
eth-2299740

Forgive me if I seem like I am making light of this subject by saying this:

Peter Schiff once said - rather than make Geithner head of the treasury - appoint my 6 year old son; at least he will play with his toys and not destroy our economy. Too bad that's not what happened.

BK hope you don't mind if I reuse your words, and sound like a broken record.

We are dealing with 2 opposing?? forces. One extremely evil and one not so good.

I was a life long democrat - even raised in England for awhile when I thought socialism was not so bad. Now I listen to conservative shows, don't think libertarians are neccesarily the bad guys, because this administration has shown itself to be self destructive and taking our nation with it.

Got to STOP it.

Don't know if I made my point, but I feel for you.

  • 3 votes
#20.8 - Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:40 PM EDT
Reply
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