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BK LIM

Disasters know no boundaries; saving Mother Earth is our collective responsibility.
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Eco-friendly geological solutions to HydroBalance Mother Nature back to health - Part 1: Pressing flood problems

Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:08 PM EDT
environment, thailand, disaster, hurricane, eco-friendly, typhoon, geological-solution, global-flooding, hydrobalancing
By BK Lim
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-         BK Lim 10 October 2011 

There are always solutions. It is only a matter of interest. Corporate interests take over when you don’t.

Excessive monsoon rain for the last 3 months has drowned almost a third of Thailand's land mass; devastating some of the most productive farmland and putting at risk some of the most treasured ancient temples. The worst flood in 50 years dealt a dramatic blow to Japanese automobile, precision instruments and other industries because the nation is now an important global production base for numerous manufacturers. (19 Oct 2011 Japan Times).  Besides billions of dollars in damages and putting nearly 700,000 people temporarily out of work (23 Oct 2011, Seattlepi.com), the 2011 flood is a grim reminder that Mother Nature is not well and the worse is yet to come.

Thailand is not the only country faced with massive flooding problems. Other South-east Asian countries particularly Vietnam and Philippines seem to bear the brunt of the ferocious typhoons late in the season. Northern Australia (Queensland) was the first to be hit with the worst flood of the century lasting 2 months; from Dec 2010 till Jan of 2011. The 2011 Brazil floods of January were considered the worst in the country's history. By 18 Jan. the floods had taken about 700 lives and 14,000 people made homeless mainly due to landslides. In the June-Sept 2011 period, flooding in China affected more than 4.8 million people, with 100,000 evacuated and 54 reported dead. The floods which occurred in central and southern parts of China were caused by heavy rain that inundated portions of 12 provinces, leaving other provinces still suffering a prolonged drought. A total of over 36 million people have been affected, killing at least 355 and with direct economic losses of nearly US$6.5 billion ~ Wikipedia.

There seems to be more intense and widespread flooding less than a year after the massive oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. Is this a mere coincidence? Or is there more to it and the main stream media is not telling?

As of late Oct 2011, the massive oil spill has not run its course yet. There has been has been numerous sighting of fresh oils and reported gas bubbles at locations where previous oil slick had been found. See figure 145-1 (U20111023) below. All these confirmed our previous prediction of long term climatic consequences following the mega oil spill disaster in the gulf.

While massive flooding had occurred before; they have never occurred on such a massive scale over so many regions at such close intervals following a massive well blowout and a mega oil spill.

Pro-oil scientists and geologists often cite that it is impossible for a tiny 10inch well spewing only 60,000 bpd (upgraded from the initial 1,000) for 87 days to have caused such havoc to the world’s climate. Their favorite line of argument: “No well blowout in history has caused such massive environmental havoc before”.  But did they emphasize the huge fundamental flaws in their argument?

First and foremost there has never been a well blowout so deep underwater and so disastrous. Although the government officially capped it at 4.1 millions barrels, talks among industry circles put it possibly many times more. With the reservoir still leaking openly through the faulted pathways all around the gulf, the leaks will not stop until depletion. The Macondo recoverable reserves was estimated to be as low as 50 million barrels but a Forbes publication suggested it could more likely be a hefty 1 billion barrels.

This means a lot more oil has yet to leak out through the broken geology if nothing is done. In a worst case scenario, the wide spread underground erosion sets off an unprecedented shallow crustal adjustments in the New Madrid fault zone. Like an unwinding spring coil releasing all the pent-up stresses accumulate over thousands of years. The Macondo prospect lies within the central pivoting point of the intra-plate tectonics and a “deep puncture” here is more disastrous than anywhere else in the gulf.   

Further BP drilled not 1 but 3 wells (excluding the 2 relief wells) all within 1000 ft of each other. Even well A (showcased as the official blown well) spewed gas and oil continuously for 87 days. What about the blown crater at open well no# 3 (referred to as Well BE in the recently exposed videos) and several blowholes, dozens of vents along the fault lines and at the edges of the salt domes.

The oil slick pattern covering an area of 580 sq miles in just 2 days after the 22 April 2nd explosion, could not have come from just one well at the south-western edge of the slick area. All evidences showed that a lot more oil (not just from well A alone) spewed out from the blown crater at the 3rd well, blow holes, vents and fissures along the fault lines and salt domes. With BP still carrying out grouting works till late Nov2010, the actual amount of oil spewed could have been 10 times more than conservative estimates.

The main stream media has also not emphasized the massive amount of green house gases released into the atmosphere? The widespread vaporization of methane deposit (due to hot escaping oil) and toxic gasses leaking from the Macondo reservoir have not ceased for sure. After more than 15 months of relentless underground erosion (from reservoir level to the seafloor) the rate of toxic gas emissions is likely to have increased exponentially. 

Methane is more potent than carbon dioxide as a greenhouse gas affecting climate change. More heating capacity means higher evaporation rate on a larger scale; leading to higher water vapor content in the atmosphere. Higher moisture content in our atmosphere means more volatility because water-laden air traps more energy and does not allow uniform distribution of heat over the earth’s surface. This allows more frequent building up of intense high pressure zones in the ocean. At the same time, dry continental masses heat up faster creating very low pressure zones. The increase in ferocity and frequency of the hurricanes (or typhoons) in the summer months that follow is not coincidental but a logical consequence of that mega oil spill. Prolonged droughts and flooding periods will certainly increase and will create havoc with agricultural production the world over.

To be fair, the world was already swamped with environmental pollution from the rapid pace of global industrialization, mining and urbanization. An oil spill and gas discharge on such a massive scale just turbo-charged and drove the world faster over the brink. Observational evidence shows a clear correlation between historic eruptions and subsequent years of cold climate conditions. See Geology SDSU.Edu on the examples of Laki (1783), Tambora (1815), Karkatau (1883) and Pinatubo (1991).  No doubt the volume of gases and other volcanic materials spewed during the eruptions are more massive within a few weeks but the Gulf’s mega oil spill disaster lasted much longer (at least 15 months longer and counting) and spread wider.

Our present surface irrigation and drainage systems (designed and built decades ago) cannot cater for the inevitable sea level rise, let alone the heavier and longer rainfall periods. Perennial flooding and droughts with massive and destructive forest fires are clearly on the rise. Rapid and massive deforestation (by fires) will increase even more greenhouse gas emissions.

We are thus on the threshold of a spiraling catastrophic climate cycle, thanks to mega oil spill and continuing massive gas discharge which has pushed us prematurely into this climatic roller-coaster ride.  If we do nothing now, more farmland, nuclear power plants and cities are going to be flooded sooner or later.  Is there a solution? You bet there is but corporate profit-oriented oil-centric interests are not willing to lose their lucrative multi-billion global business. The mega oil spill and HAARP have shown us that altering the earth’s climate is not that impossible. We should be able to reverse back the damage done not only by the Gulf’s disaster but from years of pollution and abuse of Mother Nature. It is time we Hydro-Balance Mother Nature back to health.

Why Hydro-Balancing?

Water cover 70% of the planet’s surface. A lot more is present within the earth’s crust than currently thought of. We have always assumed the hydrologic cycle to be balanced as illustrated below:

The hydrologic cycle is a conceptual model that describes the storage and movement of water between the biosphere, atmosphere, lithosphere, and the hydrosphere (see Figure 8b-1). Water on this planet can be stored in any one of the following reservoirs: atmosphere, oceans, lakes, rivers, soils, glaciers, snowfields, and groundwater.

Figure 8b-1: Hydrologic Cycle. (from http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8b.html)

Water moves from one reservoir to another by way of processes like evaporation, condensation, precipitation, deposition, runoff, infiltration, sublimation, transpiration, melting, and groundwater flow. The oceans supply most of the evaporated water found in the atmosphere. Of this evaporated water, only 91% of it is returned to the ocean basins by way of precipitation. The remaining 9% is transported to areas over landmasses where climatological factors induce the formation of precipitation. The resulting imbalance between rates of evaporation and precipitation over land and ocean is corrected by runoff and groundwater flow to the oceans.

As you can see on this USGS website on NATURAL PROCESSES OF GROUND-WATER AND SURFACE-WATER INTERACTION (http://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/circ1139/htdocs/natural_processes_of_ground.htm) much of the recharge groundwater never penetrate deep into the landmass except for some special conditions such as artesian aquifers.

 

Although most of the surface water is evaporated and falls back to ground, that water does not return to the inner continental mass or deep hydrosphere. Deep groundwater reservoirs were never replenished. For more than 2,000 years there has been a net loss of water (from the deep hydrosphere) and net gain in our surface hydrosphere (ocean, lakes, rivers, atmosphere and upper groundwater). Our hydrologic cycle was never balanced as we blindly assumed.

Our surface hydrosphere is like an enclosed glass container. Once the water enters it, it cannot escape. There is thus an increasing level of water content in the surface hydrosphere with increasingly disastrous heavy rainfalls and prolonged droughts. The Gulf's mega contribution in green house gasses would have mattered less, if not for the already imbalanced hydrosphere.

The water within the surface has nowhere to go but back into the ocean and the rain cycle repeats itself while the deserts within the continental land mass become drier and drier. Drying continental masses are also much lighter as air replaces water. Water is 781.25 times heavier than air.  1 cubic metre of water at 4 deg Celsius weighs 1000kg or 1 metric ton. Naturally the increase in sea level is less noticeable being accompanied by isostatic adjustments of the lighter continental mass. A 10m sandstone bed over 1sq. km could contain as much as 2 million cu.metres of water. Replacing even 50% of the water content with air would reduce the weight of the same sandstone bed by 998,720 tons for each 1 million cu.metres of water replaced. Any wonder why the world’s larges dam with 39.3 cu.km capacity would cause earthquakes, cracks and landslides. The difference in weight (heavier) is a staggering 39.25 million tons.

http://naturalplane.blogspot.com/2010/05/three-gorges-dam-causing-earthquakes.html

Officials dismissed the first landslides as the foreseeable side-effects of a massive dam project. They are not so dismissive now. A total of 9,324 potentially dangerous sites have been identified. Geologists working midway down the reservoir have found 700 around one town alone on the north bank. Experts say the landslides could go on for 20 years as a huge settlement of earth and water takes shape. It will cost China more than £5 billion to solve all this. A special budget is being worked out inside the opaque bureaucracy that controls the state’s megaprojects.

The global sea level rise is not just the melting of the polar caps but increasing water content in the surface hydrosphere. A large part of that increase came gradually from the deep continental masses. Geologic records tell us that sea level in the past had been as high as 200 to 250m above the present level. How much is due to isostatic adjustment is debatable. In many past marine surveys, I was amazed at the recoveries of partially decayed and some well-preserved wood fragments in the core samples recovered at the edges of the present continental shelf. This could only mean the present continental shelf edges at 150-200m depths were once the estuarine and river mouths when global sea level receded as low as 200 m from the present sea level. Other geological evidences will be discussed in later postings. We are now roughly in the mid level of historic global sea level highs and lows.

Climate scientists have always estimated global sea level rise as 1.5 – 2.0 mm / year ~ www.climate.org/topics/sea-level/index.html. But like everything else this was estimated over the last 100 years. Is the increase in sea level gradual or occurs in sudden jumps of 2 to 10m each time the atmosphere decides to unload its excess water load? Just like the carbon sink models, the hydro sink in the hydrosphere will absorbed the increase in water content until full capacity is reached. It then dumps the excess load; resulting in a sudden rise. We may be lulled into a false sense of security with the gradual rise theory. Were the biblical great floods (commonly told in other cultural histories as well) the result of this sudden and hefty rise in sea levels? If such floods occurred 2,000 – 4,000 years ago, then such great floods may be due within our present life time.

Like all long term illnesses, the pressing problems of massive flooding cannot be tackled overnight. By the time massive flooding occurs, it is too later to handle the problems of draining massive quantities of water. The solution cannot also drain the rivers dry and should be able to return the stored water for use during prolonged droughts automatically. Each hydro-channelling scheme should be a building block towards the global solution of reducing our energy dependence on Oil and the excessive water vapor in our surface hydrosphere. The faster governments around the world adopt the principles of hydro-balancing with such simple eco-friendly geological solutions the faster Mother Nature is nursed back to health.

Instead of wasteful overproduction of cars and consumer goods, over-building of houses, dams and roads, over-mining of resources and destructive drilling / fracking exploration, just to keep the economy going, governments should look into channeling valuable human and financial resources into productive dual-use deep water wells, underground drainage channels to supplement and adapt available geological resources to recycle water back into the deep hydrosphere. Besides providing an economic boost with high employment, these master solutions tackle multiple problems at the very root level, water the basis of life.

Regional fault zones and deep aquifers (porous geological formations) can be easily converted into valuable water recycling/transport channels, water store and supplies, clean of toxic cancer-causing agents. Instead of building expensive filtration plants, why not allow natural filtration processes take their course in recycling our waste water into fresh mineral water deep within the rock formation. Civilisation should fit into the nature’s way of cycling water, not upset it with artificial manufacturing processes with compounded problems.

Massive hydro-dams, coastal tidal barriers, floodgates and dredging/deepening of waterways are not long term solutions as we do not remove the excess water from the surface hydrosphere. Instead we should have distributed flood control vertical drains to complement existing surface drainage system. The vertical drains do not flow back to the rivers (as in the present system causing congestion during peak flows) but connect back to the deep hydrosphere through the regional faults. With millions of cubic metres of freshwater diverted back to the continental interior through a network of faults, the amount of fresh water flows into the sea is not only reduced. New industries capitalizing on renewable sources of energy, automatic distributed urban flood-control schemes, cost-effective irrigation schemes to water the deserts and prevent massive forest fires could spring up. The billions of dollars saved from future environmental carnage should be sufficient to finance nation-wide construction. The construction boom in underground channeling projects and future increase in agricultural production are bonuses.

Long Term Eco-friendly geological solution to Thailand flooding woes.

As with the rest of the world, Thailand’s irrigation and flood control system has been built on the basic principle of water storage during the wet monsoon seasons and controlled release during the dry seasons for year round agriculture. This is done through a network of irrigation canals, hydro-power dams and flood-control sluice gates. There are also millions of shallow water wells, many of which had not been used in recent years. All surface runoff in the northern part of Thailand eventually flow into the four main rivers (Nan, Ping, Yom & Wang) which converged into the Menam Chao Phraya at Nakkon Sawan, approximately 140 miles from Bangkok.

An important rice bowl of the world, Thailand’s agricultural production depends on a regulated supply of water all year round. Bangkok, the commercial heart and capital, sits at the river mouth the Menam Chao Phraya. With a basin of 61,931 sq miles and a total length of 231 miles, it discharges an average of 718 cu.m of water per second (max: 5,960 cu.m/s) into the Gulf of Thailand. (source Wikipedia).

The floods since July 2011 had killed 270 people and had affected 8.2 million people in 60 of Thailand’s 77 provinces; 30 of which are currently inundated. Officials at the Agriculture Ministry said 1.17 million hectares of rice fields might be damaged. Thailand, the world's biggest rice exporter, has about 10.9 million hectares planted with the staple grain. Another 283,279 hectares of land planted with other crops is also likely to have suffered damage, the ministry said. Bank of Thailand governor PrasarnTrairatvorakul said a preliminary estimate by the central bank shows economic losses from flooding that began in late July range from $1.9 billion to $2.6 billion USD.

(cbc.ca/news/2011/10/11/thailand-flooding.html)

BANGKOK, October 27, 2011 (AFP) - Thousands of nervous Bangkok residents flocked to bus, rail and air terminals Thursday while heavy traffic snaked out of the sprawling Thai capital in an exodus from a mass of approaching floodwater. Water was seeping into central areas of the city of 12 million people, entering the grounds of the Grand Palace after the Chao Phraya river overflowed at high tide, but most of downtown Bangkok was still dry.

Many residents hunkered down in their homes, surrounded by sandbags or in some cases even hastily erected concrete block walls, after the government ordered a five-day holiday for 21 provinces including Bangkok from Thursday. "It's a crisis, because if we try to resist this massive amount of floodwater, a force of nature, we won't win," said a teary-eyed Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, facing a major test of her two-month-old leadership.

The Nation October 27, 2011 12:59 pm BANGKOK:  A Dutch expert on flooding, Adri Verwey, said yesterday the worst case scenario for Bangkok was that "extensive areas" of the capital could be submerged under more than one metre of water, if dykes are breached in many areas. Verwey, who was sent by the government of the Netherlands to assist the Thai government warned that Sukhumvit and other low-lying areas are especially prone - though it will take days for the water to reach inner Bangkok. "The levy is very important," he told The Nation and a small group of foreign journalists at Flood Relief Operation Centre (FROC) in Don Mueang airport which itself is now being visited by some flood water. Verway said this coming weekend would be "most crucial" with the expected strong tide. "I pity the Thai people," he said, adding that a lot of tasks will be awaiting the Kingdom in the recovery process. "You have this failure already. You can expect quite a few more."

The dilemma of a hydro dam control system

When the abnormally heavy rain started in mid July, the dams continued to retain water as per normal. No one could forecast 3 months ahead the heavy downpour would continue. By 2nd Oct 2011, 11 of the country’s 26 major dams had contained more water than their official capacity while others were 82 to 99 percent full according to the Royal Irrigation Department. By August many of the Northern provinces had been flooded. To release even more water would have exacerbate an already disastrous situation. At that time many had already blamed their flood woes on the irrigation department for releasing too much water.

Now that the flood waters had flowed down to Bangkok’s flood canals, many residents were questioning whether the Royal Irrigation Department was too slow in reacting. But it was a “Damn if you do and Damn if you don’t” predicament.

The flood problem at Bangkok is worsened during the high tide periods when the discharge into the sea is impeded. Water that does not flow can cause a lot of damage to the canals and levees which were not designed to withstand high pressure. With nowhere to flow, the flood waters could take weeks to subside provided no new flood waters flow down the Chao Phraya.

So while the problem could have been solved and prevented months ago, it is human nature not to do so until it is too late. So will the rest of the world. Forget the global warming hoax and the punishing carbon tax solutions. They do not solve the world’s immediate environmental problems such as the one facing Thailand or any flood and drought prone countries right now.

When it rains, it pours

Hydro-dams can only control water when the water is still in the catchment area and not after the flood waters had reached the flood plains. Most typhoons, like Nesat and Nalgae dumped much of their rain load on the fluvial plains outside the control of hydro dams. Most existing drainage systems converge and drain into the main fluvial channels. This is like causing a massive traffic jam during peak flows and they all flow southwards towards Bangkok. With low elevation, there is not much gradient to speed up the water flow. Even if there is, the flood water will accumulate at the next flat zone. Our present surface drainage system is thus like a serial, linear system; never suitable to cater for peak flows during floods.

To solve our flooding woes, our fundamental concept of a converging system must radically change to a divergent distributed system (a complete reversal). In order to do that

  1. there need to be alternative water outlets, not just the sea
  2. any excess water above the optimum flow level of the main channels must be automatically removed so that the volume of water can never reach the danger level of flooding (tackling the problem at root level before it gets too massive to handle)
  3. water in the alternative outlet can be stored for extraction during the dry period or channel out to areas in need of water.

Nature has already provided us with a ready made solution. All we need to do is to harness the enormous potential of our natural resources, hundreds to thousands of metres below us. Drill large deep wells into the highly fractured fault zones to act as vertical and inclined channels to the suitable porous rock formations for massive storage.  Each country will need to design their own distributed network of underground channels (a combination of connecting tunnels and suitable fault zones) to interconnect the aquifers and deeper formations based on their respective geological structures and stratigraphy.  

Some preliminary quantitative food for thoughts.

At 1m flood height over an area 1sq km, the volume of flood water is 1 million cu.metres.  A sandstone bed 10 m thick with 20% porosity over 1 sq km area, has the capacity to store an equivalent of 1 million cu.metres of water assuming 50% impermeability. In addition a highly permeable fault zone with just 30% porosity (100m wide x 1km length x 1 km depth) could store as much as 30 million cu.metres of water. As these regional fault zones run for miles into the interior of the continental mass, their storage and transport capacity is potentially enormous. Clearly suitable geologic conditions can be utilized as deep underground resource (water store) with the appropriate adaptations. See illustrations in figures #7001a to c.

If excess water is continually removed as soon as it rises above the optimum main channel level, there is no need to actively pump the water into the wells. There can be various contraptions to generate electricity as the water flows downwards under gravity. These wells can have triple purposes; drain excess water into the underground store, generate electricity and provide fresh water sources during droughts.

As contingency (in the event of an unforeseen accidental flood outside the main channels; depending on the setup) water from the flooded area can be pumped into the nearest series of wells. With 5 wells per sq km and a conservative discharge rate of 20,000 cu m /day/well, it would take 10 days to clear 1 million cu.metres of water by pumping the water into the wells. The discharge rate can be improved by various means such as increasing the diameter and depth of the wells. The money to be spent on building more irrigation canals and flood control dams (now proven to be ineffective), can be better spent on these vertical dual purpose deep wells. With faster construction periods (than dam construction) and the immediate availability of the natural geological resources, a system of vertical wells can be installed progressively to prevent the next catastrophic flooding. With the unpredictable climate change following the gulf’s mega oil spill disaster, the next flood in your neighborhood could be just around the corner.  Prevention is definitely better and less costly than cure. Those who had experienced the floods first hand and had suffered personal losses of loved ones & irreplaceable valuables, the aftermath clean-up of the disaster is as traumatic as the tragedies themselves.  

For the love of mankind, for the prevention of such mega disastrous tragedies and for the compassion of those who had suffered immense losses, let us all work together to prevent such massive destruction of lives and properties. It is in our interests to act together in unison. Remember corporate interests take over when you don’t.

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  • Public Discussion (54)
BK Lim

There many other geological situations we can exploit so #7001 is just one example.

We can pick many of these regional lateral faults from displacement pattern in the topography. In the past I had employed seismic refraction and resistivity methods to confirm these faults on the ground. Many of my successful geohazards prediction were based on mapping these “unseen” permeable fault zones. For example in 1994 our mapping confirmed an intersection of 2 buried faults close to the confluence of 2 rivers in Kuala Lumpur. We advised a diversion of the proposed tunnel route to avoid this fault intersection. The consultant relying on the closely spaced drill holes refused, saying there was no real evidence from the drilling results. He made the statement that seismic interpretation could not be trusted because there were no rock samples where you can feel and touch. In defence I told him that 60% of the core samples in Malaysia were recycled rock cores bought off from previous projects (there is widespread fraud in the drilling industry in Malaysia, I know this from personal experience in my fraud busting career).

Hazamas drilled the mass transit tunnel 3 years later and had a tunnel collapse at exactly the same spot we had predicted. This was no fluke. There were 3 other locations where we had indicated other types of problems. Hyundai and Hazamas (tunnel boring contractors) both contacted us to resolve their delayed projects. Their tunnel collapses and delayed problems were all related to the high permeability in the fault and/or limestone bedrock zones. Therefore the use of high permeability fault zones and beds is not plucked out of thin air but based on extensive field experience.

When Fugro heard about our success, they wanted to buy over our company and expertise. In the agreement we passed over >1million worth of contracts to them. But one year later we parted company after we discovered they (Fugro) were manufacturing seismic data in the office/hotel room instead of recording them in the field. We do not deal with crooks. I am reminded by the following words by Abraham Lincoln:

I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong.

  • 13 votes
Reply#1 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:11 PM EDT
TR-421173

IRY

  • 12 votes
Reply#2 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:27 PM EDT
BK Lim

Thanks TR. Hopefully the idea gets pickup at the right places.

  • 12 votes
#2.1 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:46 PM EDT
Reply
LT student

Sounds like a great idea. Didn't think of it that way.

  • 12 votes
Reply#3 - Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:53 PM EDT
fishwarrior

AhHa! This is your Plan to place agri. where there was once drought---hence food can be grown and water drank! Love Love it! You are such a Beautiful Mind BK---God must be so proud. How do we get this info to 'the right places'?

On another note or two---can salt water be desalinized to become potable drinking water or even water for crops? And, can excess waters (like during a flooding period) be diverted to areas (say reservoirs) via pipelines? It just seems to me that certain areas of the USA get so much water that flooding becomes a costly problem all while other areas are in dire need! Like a pipeline of gas, why can't we build a pipeline with vlaves for the times of excess? Of course a water pipeline would much less dangerous than a gas line! Just curious, as this has bothered me for some time now.

I believe I have a general grasp of your above explanation---ie the water never gets above a certain level, but rather, it is put back into the Earth's core and not runoff into the ocean??? Hence, it would be groundwater that remains in the area for cultivation of food and drining water---is that it in simplistic terms???

  • 10 votes
Reply#4 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:52 AM EDT
BK Lim

Thank you FW.

Like a pipeline of gas, why can't we build a pipeline with vlaves for the times of excess? Of course a water pipeline would much less dangerous than a gas line!

Miles of pipeline are costly. So if piped water costs as much as oil or gas, then the corporations would be willing to build the pipelines and maintain them. Whereas usign the fault zones, the long distance transport is free. It does not flow rapidly but then the rocks will filter them over the long distances. If we drained then down 100 - 300 m depending on the design and purpose, let the water slowly migrate and find its own level at the other end and we drill another extraction well. No need to drill very deep just enough to reach the level of the water. It is like the U tube principle. No maintenance costs unlike the pipelines. Pipelines run on the ground surface or excavated grounds (costly). In Australia they are building a pipeline to transfer water but you still need to pump against the gradient. Here you do not need energy to pump except at the extraction point.

can salt water be desalinized to become potable drinking water or even water for crops?

Yes but you need a different set up. AS you go deeper, the temperature goes up. So either you find a shallow thermal spot, drill into it let the water boil and separate, the steam rises as fresh water. You can also harness the heat like what Australia is doing. If there is no shallow thermal spot, we can choose the faults that run deep, drain the sea water into them let them separate naturally (takes time) the denser salt watergoes deeper down and the fresher water migrate higher progressively provided they are not trapped stratigraphically. As this involves deeper wells it is bound to be costlier. But if we do not run out of water by recycling at shallower depths, why need to desalinise? Unless it is to lower the sea level. Fresh water is easier to evaporate and cause the higher vapor content. We need to tackle this fresh water problem first with regard to the flooding.

And, can excess waters (like during a flooding period) be diverted to areas (say reservoirs) via pipelines? It just seems to me that certain areas of the USA get so much water that flooding becomes a costly problem all while other areas are in dire need!

Depending on where the fault lines go. You can pump them up to be stored in the dam but dams have large surface area for evaporation so dams are actually not the best place to store water. The best place is underground. With transpiration and capillary actions, they keep the ground moist and not too dry. Therefore the land does not heat up as fast and no extreme low pressure build-up. If we minimise the heating up of the continental mass and the building of high pressure (water laden air) in the sea, we will have less hurricanes or at least hurricane of lower intensity. Low moisture in the atmosphere will also lower the effectiveness of HAARP to cause abnormal extreme weather. It may still rain but the rain will be less intense.

but rather, it is put back into the Earth's core and not runoff into the ocean???

No, no, no. Not the core, just between 100 - 250 m to reach the desired depths. The faults will do the rest. We may have to fill up some aquifers first or drain off some; it all comes in with some strategic planning based on the ground geology. It needs some work so there is guaranteed employment for exploration, surveying, drilling, construction and a host of other support activities but instead of exploration to destroy, to mine and to overbuild, this is building for the future at the same time reducing disasters that are yet to come. No point if you made or build up to 100 million of property only to be destroyed in a matter of a few seconds. In this case you are building a defence mechanism against future destruction and to enhance productivity. What can be better than that?

  • 10 votes
#4.1 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:44 AM EDT
BK Lim

How do we get this info to 'the right places'?

I have tried for many years thru official govt channels. But there are always the middle management in every govt / semi-govt agencies / crony companies that want to extract some "rents". Imagine a project that costs only 1 million ending up 7 millions by the time everyone puts their finger in the pie. If you refuse to be part of their corrupt circle, your proposal do not see the light of day. You get answers like "not relevant", "we have checked thru your technicals and find them not suitable" blah blah blah.

The funny thing is, we have not yet submitted the technical details, so how could their foreign experts evaluate the feasibility. Or they could ask you to give some presentations and later just rejected the whole idea as " we have seen your presentation and regret to inform ......."

Then years later when their advanced built city is overflown with flood water, the top ministers will say "act of god, unforeseen circumstances ...etc etc".

I have had it with govts. They are not there to take care of the citizens but the corporations that funded their elections. Period. I have attended meeting where we brought real issues or hazards that are quite likely to happen. The standard answer is "well 3 to 5 years is a long time. By the time if that happens, we can always blame it .......on GOD (forgive me but it is true your name had been use countless times to deflect blame), unforeseen circumstances, unusual ....". You see there is always 101 excuses you can make, except to blame the people responsible in the first place.

  • 9 votes
#4.2 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:57 AM EDT
fishwarrior

Thank You so much for your extensive explanations BK. I feel much more at ease as far as those questions that I had floating about the cranium for so long!!! Pheww--thats worth a pile of haddock to me :)

What I find so disturbing is that you have this beautiful plan and noone will listen and act, but would rather blame God (I too am very sorry that we as people do that Dear Lord). You'ld think one of these so called green groups with their plethora of funds that are 'supposed' to use their collections for the better good of our planet---would buck up and take this by the Lead, But, Alas, they are NOT ENvironmentalists---they are in fact Frauds!

That being said, we still have a problem of how to enact your answer to a life-threatening problem! Perhaps a University may be procured to make this happen????

On another note, the 'heat' you are referring to in the ground, is that the 'geothermal' effects that we garner for heat/cooling? That is very interesting.

  • 5 votes
#4.3 - Tue Nov 1, 2011 9:45 AM EDT
BK Lim

Yes FW. But not many places have thermal hot spots. My idea is to drill deep enough for the marine water to flow into the deep faults which extent down to several km. let the salt water heat up by the earth natural thermal gradient. Denser saltish water will sink while the lighter fresh rise ... a slow separation process but hey we got the time and no energy cost. The thermal hot spots would be faster as the water boils to separate.

  • 5 votes
#4.4 - Tue Nov 1, 2011 12:37 PM EDT
fishwarrior

BK that is just Way Way TOo Cool! You are one Brilliant Cookie :)

  • 6 votes
#4.5 - Tue Nov 1, 2011 12:42 PM EDT
RON-1137649

BK
For weeks now , I've been meaning to check if you've wrote and posted this article . You had said back in September , you were going to post it . I've been slow to read and comment , like I've done in the past .
This article goes with things I've learned in the past .
Fifty years ago . It was said we're draining all the ground water out of the mid-west , to irrigate and growing wheat , to supply the world . Just this last spring , there was great floods in some of this area . Your idea would have reduced this problem greatly .

You might remember . I keep looking for Clean Renewable Energy solutions . This is a very sound idea . A couple of years ago . I read and commented on an article . Where they wanted to pump high pressure air into caves and mines . I questioned this idea . But I like the idea of putting water back into the ground .

The idea of air as energy , might be a small answer . Using solar by day and air by night . I wish I could blurt out my idea here , but that would be unwise .

Hello , Fish Warrior
It's great to see you in here . You're making some profound comments , to a great article .
RON

  • 3 votes
#4.6 - Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:53 AM EST
BK Lim

Any flow of water can generate energy. The beauty is in the distributed system; hence power will never be concentrated to the elite few. Without concentrated power, there would be less need for corruption. We are also putting the cart before the horse with the present system.

We build gigantic hydroelectric dams and huge power generators only to distribute far and wide. In concentrating power at one point, we destroy the environment to make it worthwhile. Then we build power lines roads etc to bring power to the masses. We double the costs.

  • 1 vote
#4.7 - Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:32 PM EST
RON-1137649

BK
About four years ago . I was inspiredwith the idea of producing electric power within the pipes of out water system . As I studied the idea , I went back 3,000 years . To the time of the Romans and their aqueducts and waterwheels . I agree with you . Any flow of water can produce energy . But I want more than charging my cell phone . That is what I concluded , when I first started thinking about my idea , and hydro power .
As I had my thinking on clean renewable energy , another idea came to me and another and another . When I needed a E-mail address , I came up with scottswaterwheel@msn.com . I thought it has the making of a good tread mark .

To put it mildly , I'm academically challenged . Yet , think I can change the world , with my ideas . Solar energy is at the forefront of my thinking . Kinetic energy second and wind third .

I'm in agreement with you . The present day thinking of building huge power plants , is wrong .
Building all these huge wind farm hundreds of miles away from where the power is needed , is a waste .
The first of this week . I saw a train with the propeller heads and the generator housings for wind turbines , as far as I could see . Because of the curve of the track . I know not how many cars were attached . It would be easy for me to think , there were more than fifty train cars .

Because I don't feel free to blert out my ideas here . I fell like I've got chains holding me in every direction . Reading some of you post and comments . I think you feel the same , at times .
RON

  • 1 vote
#4.8 - Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:22 PM EST
BK Lim

Ron, you will notice that most of the "new direction" inventions/ideas were from field observations by courageous people who dared to go against the "mainstream" thinking (1). It is only after "mainstream" acceptance, technocrats and academicians study them in greater details for "evolutionary" improvements (2).

(1) - anyone can come up with brilliant ideas, not necessarily only those with technical expertise or academic qualifications.

(2) - difficult to break out from the norm or confines of present limit of accepted mainstream knowledge.

  • 1 vote
#4.9 - Sun Jan 1, 2012 2:18 PM EST
RON-1137649

I understand what your telling me . But I know not , how to take the next step .
Only now , this late in life am I learning how to put my thoughts into words .

It's difficult to even think about breaking out of the norm . My present limits are beyond what I can tell you .

I would like to think one day you would pass a solar farm , and see Scott's Water Wheel posted and you question , what was his first name . That you had traded comments with me , in years past .Or that you sure was glad Ron showed them how to light up the night with solar energy .
RON

  • 1 vote
#4.10 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 3:27 AM EST
Reply
BK Lim

A beautiful example below:

Biological Hazard in USA on Sunday, 30 October, 2011 at 18:37 (06:37 PM) UTC.

State scientists will head to the Florida Panhandle this week to check on East Bay oyster beds where oystermen are reporting a die-off. Oyster season opened Oct. 1. Oystermen have reported pulling up dead oysters from beds that had been filled with large, healthy oysters at the end of
the last harvest season on June 30. "We're finding very few alive," Pasco Gibson, a main supplier of the East Bay oysters, told the Pensacola News Journal. "This time of the year, we should be catching 500 to 1,000 pounds per boat a day. We're not even catching a hundred pounds." Gibson's six oyster boats are mostly idle, and some of his freelance oystermen are heading to Apalachicola to look for work. He said the meager harvests have cost him 40 percent of his income. Depending on what's killing the oysters, once they start growing back, it could take up to three years to grow them large enough to harvest, he said. "Something happened in August, and it had to be massive because some of these beds are 10 miles apart," Gibson said of the beds scattered near the shorelines of East Bay. Scientists from the Department of Agriculture's Division of Aquaculture will check the oyster beds this week. Oyster die-offs are not unusual, said Leslie Palmer, director
of the Aquaculture Division in Tallahassee.
A variety of causes could potentially be responsible, including drought, extreme heat, warmerthan-normal water temperatures, or high salinity and low oxygen in the water, she said. Diseases and parasites also can wipe out an oyster bed. Storm water runoff from Tropical Storm Lee, which hit the area Labor Day weekend, could have pushed silt over the beds, smothering the oysters, said Robert Turpin, Escambia County's marine resources manager. "That could be easily confirmed by jumping into the water and checking out the beds to see if it is silt or something else," he said.

Palmer and Turpin hesitated to blame the die-off on the 2010 BP oil spill.

The massive oil slick washed up on Pensacola's beaches, and pockets of submerged oil remain in Pensacola Pass. BP's Florida District spokesman Craig Savage said the oil company is working with state and federal agencies, as part of the Natural Resource Damage Assessment process, to collect hundreds of field observations and thousands of oyster samples with a goal of further understanding all the potential
factors that can affect oyster production. "These results will help to guide the agencies and public in order to make informed decisions for future oyster management," he said. "We understand from federal, state, and academic scientists and fisheries experts that many factors can affect the population of oysters, which are independent of any potential impacts related to the Deepwater Horizon accident."

I just loved it when they blame everything under the sun except the sun itself.

  • 10 votes
Reply#5 - Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:04 AM EDT
fishwarrior

Of course they 'hesitated'--they probably like living above the dirt as opposed to 6ft. under!

  • 6 votes
#5.1 - Tue Nov 1, 2011 9:46 AM EDT
RON-1137649

With the problems from the Deepwater Horizon being such a short time ago . Every 30 ,60 ,or 90 days . Water , soil , fish- marine life samples should be taken . Not wait till they find dead Oysters .
Will they wait till they find dead people before they try and find the problem ?
This has been my outcry from the start . Being 300 miles from waters edge of the gulf . I hope I'm alive to voice my outcry . When I'm standing over a dead body , from the air we breath off the gulf .
RON

  • 1 vote
#5.2 - Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:15 AM EST
BK Lim

Solutions when offered way before disaster strikes are always looked upon as pesky unlikely scenarios. Thus, the saying: Only when the student is ready will the master appear.

  • 1 vote
#5.3 - Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:24 PM EST
Reply
BK Lim

The prime minister conceded existing floodwalls and water embankments might not be able to withstand the massive inundation and said there was a strong chance the flood will penetrate central and inner zones of the capital.

"The highest risk will be areas along the Chao Phraya River and the floodwalls along the banks. The flood level will depend on how well we can manage the water flow," Ms Yingluck said in a televised message.

Bangkok governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra said the water level in the Chao Phraya River yesterday reached a record high, rising to between 2.35 and 2.4 metres above sea level.

If the water level continues to rise at this rate, the Chao Phraya will surge up to 2.6m high this weekend whereas the embankment along the river is 2.5m high.

He said riverside communities are urged to be on full alert and prepare for evacuation. Evacuation centres have been arranged at all 50 district offices.

The high tides had come and gone, but the water level is still rising because of more water run-off from the northern regions. They should be pumping water into existing shallow wells (more than a few million) to least ease off the volume of water flowing into Bangkok. At 1m diameter and depth of 50 m, 1 million wells should hold 39.3 million cu metres temporarily, the water seeps into the aquifers. Not the volume to drain off the total flood waters but at least ease off some pressure.

They should start boring deep water wells now and start discharging water into the aquifers; instead of waiting for the waters to recede through normal channels to the sea. Already rice prices are shooting up in Singapore because of the anticipated shortage in the coming months.

  • 5 votes
#6 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 10:56 AM EDT
fishwarrior

I am half Japanese and I have a preference for Japanese rice. The product I get is grown in Cali. (big time water shortages there too) and I have seen the rice skyrocket! Everytime I go to buy more, the price is higher than the last! That reminds me that I should just go bite the bullet and buy a storage to stop the price creep/escalation!

Question: If given the proper direction, could indiviuals--say with larger tracts of land (like a farm) incorporate the water system that you suggest here to assist with flooding and put it back into ground??? Trying to think on the smaller end if the bigger will not come thru

  • 5 votes
#6.1 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 12:04 PM EDT
BK Lim

In my article it was designed to work on a large regional scale. When there is flooding, you have water everywhere and the water has no where to go. People build reservoirs and retention ponds which do not solve the problem at root level.

It is not cost effective on small scale. It will drain your pockets first. But for a community to pull their resources together it will work, bearing in mind the specific geology of that region or area. For very small scale, it would be better just to extract water from the aquifer. You don't have to pay for the 2-way fare. Well if the govt implement this scheme, you can actually tap into the acquifer for your requirements. So the govt save from having to provide you with pipe water. People forget that providing pipe water cost money and a huge capital outlay as well.

I will come out with better diagrams to illustrate in the next posting.

  • 5 votes
#6.2 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 3:24 PM EDT
BK Lim

Oh yeah I forgot. If your land is on the low ground valley and always the first to be hit by flood overflowing from the river banks, yes you can drill the deep well to keep your area dry.

You can also pump up the water for use during dry periods - dual use. My land used to be flooded after a heavy rain. I have an existing well. I construct subsurface drains (just 2 feet deep, line them with layer of filter and fill them up with gravels) then cover back the grass cover. Now when it rains, you can see the water flowing into the well and the ground stays dry (not muddy or water log). The idea works. You just have to work out the solution to fit your requirements.

If you can post more details we can actually discuss this further (privately or publicly, up to you). Free consultation.

  • 5 votes
#6.3 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 3:35 PM EDT
fishwarrior

I don't know if anyone told you today BK---but---You Rock Out Loud :) !!!!

Our land is in the foothils of Maine, thus flooding is not an issue. I am thinking of getting a farm in this new year and want to keep this idea in mind if I run into wet areas. My hometown is at sea level and the ground gets very saturated. I like what you've done on yours with the gravel just sub-surface--makes good sense! I am on a drilled well at present.

I must ponder this some more.

  • 6 votes
#6.4 - Wed Nov 2, 2011 5:41 PM EDT
BK Lim

Nope, you are the first. How deep is your well? Are you drawing water from the alluvial aquifers or deeper formation aquifers?

Since 30 years ago I had always advised against buying property in low lying areas. But if you have to; then choose the highest ground within a flood plain. If you are out in a rural farm land, the cheapest option is built your house on elevated foundations. Depending on the situations, but if your land is part of a basin, then whatever isolated measures taken on your plot are not going to work since the flood waters will be draining into your land unless you built a flood barrier around your land. It has to be at least a community effort.

If the flood plain is large and wide like the flood plains of the Menam Chao Phraya, you have no worries of flash floods because to flood those thousands of acres, you need very high rainfall on an extended basis. Further the govt would have undertaken flood water mitigation projects decades ago to prevent flooding on a yearly basis. But you have to watch out for the unprecedented mega floods that occur once in 20-30 years. Why? Because development and deforestation would slowly encroached on the forest reserves and catchment area to alter the hydrogeological regime so much that when it finally floods, it won't be a minor one and it would takes weeks or months to drain off.

But if you are in a narrow confined valley, then flash floods lasting from a few hours to a few days are likely. Then again farm land away from the cities would not be so badly affected as the crowded cities. The disease, rubbish and sewage that come with/after the flood (see the video and pictures below) are normally worse than the flood itself.

Older generations built their houses on silts (elevated) with the ground floor vacant for this reason. But with irrigation and well-managed urban drainage, people forget that flooding becomes inevitable once the hydrogeological regime changes and the existing infractures no longer able to cope. For govt to come out to say all these are unpredictable is just BS. They need to review their hydro-geological models every once in a while instead of depending on decades old models which admittedly worked well until the seams burst. We can with some commonsense predict these inevitable "seam bursting events" before they occur. But sadly, most will adopt the attitude of not adapting/foreseeing until the flood waters are right at the door step.

In my childhood days, we live near the river mouth and low flooding (during high tides) occur on a regular basis. We learned to live with it. In Japan Fukushima, they never anticipated the tsunami to be higher than the 4m coastal protection walls. In Bangkok they never expected to the waters to breach above the 2.5 m levels in their canals. Understandably to build for future disaster can be very costly. Japan could build 7m walls and still there is no guarantee that a future tsunami won't breach that height. A better way would be to tackle the tsunami at sea. With innovative single point mooring devices deployed in suitable arrays, we can break the tsunami waves 5 to 10 miles off the coast using the destructive wave principles. So it doesn't matter how high the tsunami waves would be, they will be destructed into chaotic waves no higher than 3m or less depending on the designs.

So the principle of solving the flooding problem is similar. Keep on increasing the levee walls higher, dredge deeper, built retention or storm water storage etc etc All these might prevent the next flood but probably breached again in the next 5 to 20 years. And every city in the flood path has to build similar flood resistant schemes. Why not remove the water and store it underground deep in fault or formation aquifers and be sure the flood level does not keep increasing in the years ahead. Perhaps the eco-friendly and economical solutions are too cheap to lined the pockets of the middlemen. Maybe that is the root of the problem.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/multimedia/morning-focus/264525/morning-focus-thu-november-03th-2011-part-2

http://www.bangkokpost.com/multimedia/photo/264427/bangkok-flooding-nov-2

  • 4 votes
#6.5 - Thu Nov 3, 2011 2:30 AM EDT
fishwarrior

My well is about 152 or 157 feet deep (I just had the pump replaced last winter). I have yet to get flooded, but I have seen my backyard saturated about 2 summers ago. Any walking or heavier on the grass would leave puddles---it took until mid-August for that to finally dy up at the surface. Thus, I thought your idea of the gravel layer, about 2feet down, was a very good one for my situation. But now I wonder if a secondary dug well or drilled well to accept the excess would be a good idea???

  • 4 votes
#6.6 - Thu Nov 3, 2011 10:55 AM EDT
fishwarrior

Another very interesting thing you mentioned was the idea of 'destructing' harmful waves at sea to minimize impact to shore----actuaally I believe that to be brilliant! Why hasn't such an inventive notion come to be??? I would think it profitable to lessen the Huge damages initiated by the havoc of a tsunami!

  • 4 votes
#6.7 - Thu Nov 3, 2011 10:57 AM EDT
BK Lim

Thus, I thought your idea of the gravel layer, about 2feet down, was a very good one for my situation. But now I wonder if a secondary dug well or drilled well to accept the excess would be a good idea???

You have to see if the soggy ground is due to an impervious clay layer at a shallower depth that is retaining the water and causing a superficial water table top. If that is the case you can either build extensive network of drains (with appropriate gradient for flow) ...depending on how big an area you want to drain or alternatively if the impervious clay layer is not too deep, say just a few metres, you might consider augering/ digging a few vertical holes so that the water can flow vertically down into the alluvial aquiferous layers below. It could be cheaper and less work.

You should actually auger a few holes to find out. In my area, the impervious layer was too thick and too shallow so it was cheaper to go for the horizontal gravel drainage system.

  • 4 votes
#6.8 - Thu Nov 3, 2011 7:20 PM EDT
BK Lim

Another very interesting thing you mentioned was the idea of 'destructing' harmful waves at sea to minimize impact to shore----actuaally I believe that to be brilliant! Why hasn't such an inventive notion come to be??? I would think it profitable to lessen the Huge damages initiated by the havoc of a tsunami!

It is but the PTB have other ideas of destroying properties and lives (depop remember)? Tsunami bombs were developed during the 2nd world war and thereafter as an economic and effective means of mass destruction. See

http://bklim.newsvine.com/_news/2011/08/28/7504144-tsunami-quake-caused-by-atomic-warhead-scientists-say

and that was the reason for my series of articles on the fictitious grounding of the USS San Francisco on 8 Jan 2005. This Tsunami destruction barrier would probably not see the light of day because it would render the use of mega quakes-tsunami as a means of mass destruction useless. So 50 years of expensive and covert research into EVIL wasted. No, I do not think TPTB wants that.

  • 4 votes
#6.9 - Thu Nov 3, 2011 7:30 PM EDT
fishwarrior

Thanks BK---Yes, I have alot of clay. Not sure how far down it goes. The idea of digging/augering several vertical holes to drain back into the aquafer is the way I think I could go very easily. My area at home is only 4 acres, so I could do this affordably. Again, thank you and I will apply it in the Spring or Early summer.

  • 4 votes
#6.10 - Sat Nov 5, 2011 1:15 PM EDT
fishwarrior

I have not read the artilce on the USS /san Fran.--although I did see the title in your stuff. I will go back and read it. That is very upsetting though---that the wave disperser will not be enacted (depop)and would run counter to the reality that has been created for profit and destruction---IRY--just makes me so sad! :( It must be very difficult being you BK! To have all these ideas and knowledge and to also possess the 'realities' of the flip side to yuor fabulous ideas---I am so very sorry! I only have little understanding of things that you have taught thru this newsvine, I just cannot imagine what you must live with in your own mind's eye---it must be maddening at times! It is a great hope to me that you are able to escape pressures of reality via your family/pet/loved ones etc....You seem to be so balanced (lack of a better word)---how do you do that?

  • 4 votes
#6.11 - Sat Nov 5, 2011 1:21 PM EDT
BK Lim

FW, it is better you do some augering to get an idea of the strata for you to work out a plan. Would you be able to get some sub-surface information on your locality from the library or some geological publication? That would be helpful.

  • 4 votes
#6.12 - Sat Nov 5, 2011 1:30 PM EDT
fishwarrior

I'll check my Town Hall as they are super fabulous.

  • 4 votes
#6.13 - Sat Nov 5, 2011 1:57 PM EDT
BK Lim

The first things we need to understand is

Detachment (willing to let go),

Humility (Ego is one of the main evils driving all these problems we are facing),

Economical (do not waste or be greedy, use only what you need),

Gentleness (Non violence, do not use force and in the words of John Lenon, LET IT BE). Let the natural process slowly achieve the healing or balance. Any Action will be met with Reaction. So either we wear down the rocks thru years of erosion or blast it with explosive.

The Gulf disaster is a typical example. Deepwater exploration and production of oil is more expensive than their shallow equivalent. The pay back of investment takes much longer and depend on oil prices > 90 USD. Below that they would be losing their pants down.

But it is a new area and easy to attract "greedy" investors with huge reserves (always an estimate based on various assumptions which no one can verify) without telling the high costs and long payback periods. But if a supposedly accident were to happen on the journey to getting the oil, and the proof of oil was there, you not only get the insurance compensation but also the huge windfalls from futures trading since you would be previledge to know the timing of the disaster and therefore the trend of the oil prices. So instead of slowly waiting 25 years or more to get back your investment of a few billions USD, for the first 500 million USD, you can make many times more on top of the few billions you are supposed to invest (and the potential returns) all for a couple of years of planning and paper pushing. So if Greed and Being in control as if you are playing GOD with the lives of the victims, then obviously the Fastest nd most evil way would be the way to go. Premeditated Disasters and Corps are the means. It is the people behind the Corp Power who benefited and have the edge over other socially responsible and honest Corp Citizens who are being bankrupted and put out of business. Over time, very corps would want to play the aggressive role. Who cares about the welfare of the people and Mother Nature, it was the bottomline that counts on the way to the top of the food chain.

So you see the Gulf Disaster was no accident. It was a part of the bigger Plan. God help us all if their Bigger Plan continues.

  • 4 votes
#6.14 - Sat Nov 5, 2011 2:13 PM EDT
fishwarrior

So you see the Gulf Disaster was no accident. It was a part of the bigger Plan. God help us all if their Bigger Plan continues

IRY! I don't know if God even wants to help us anymore and who could blame Him! Our country has evicted God from the grounds :(

  • 4 votes
#6.15 - Sat Nov 5, 2011 4:28 PM EDT
RON-1137649

The two of you have had a run of comments , and I've enjoyed learning and thinking about what was said .
Allow me to make a funny comment , pertaining to Fish Warrior comment #6.1
As you told about your love of rice .

Thirty years ago , a friend told me a tail . He was married to a woman who didn't think out what came out of her mouth .
They were on a trip from Greenville , Ms. to Memphis , Tn . This is part of the delta area of Mississippi , With miles and miles of rice farms .
One of her two sons ask what was growing in the fields .
My buddy said he almost wrecked when she answered . Boy's that is "astroturf "growing there .

I hope each of you get a chuckle out of this .
RON

  • 1 vote
#6.16 - Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:19 PM EST
BK Lim

Ron, there may be a valuable lesson here. For the unlightened ones, an uncut diamond could be just a piece of rock. So some of your well-intentioned ideas would be valubale only to those with the knowledge and the keeness to solve that particular problem.

  • 1 vote
#6.17 - Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:21 PM EST
RON-1137649

God has been doing some wonderful things in my life , the last few weeks .
I must believe , God has given me these ideas , as a talent . I must find the right place to invest these talents .
While reading your comments in the past . You had people who have stolen your knowledge and talent .
There are people who will steal from God . But I must depend on only God to put my on the right path . The way you wrote your last comment , I think you understand me .

  • 1 vote
#6.18 - Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:48 PM EST
BK Lim

Don't waste on the ideas God has given you. You need to work out a path for these ideas to get acceptance....that is the more difficult part. For some ideas, there are windows of opportunities. For others, it takes a long time until Society has no choice as current ways of life or paths lead to a wall or catastrophe.

If we do not return water back to the deep hydrosphere, our present civilisation cycle will eventually be swamped, flooded and eventually killed off, heralding a new Ice Age. Scientists all over the world are still puzzled how the planet switched on and off the Ice Ages. One thing for sure, our present civilisation did not evolve directly from the cavemen-stone age era. There would have been numerous cycles of civilisation (another series of articles in preparation since 10 years ago) perhaps as many as thousands or millions of cycles.

Just imagine ...how could so many hundreds of human races have evolved naturally from one single parent lineage (Adam and Eve)? Charles Darwin's principle of Evolution is fatally flawed. Mutations from catastrophic events are generally regressive and fatal not progressive. There cannot be a single point of creation and evolution thereafter (even for billions of years) to produce such diversity of life. There must have been progressive creations or modifications (genetically modifications come to mind) and that could only have come from civilisations far more advanced than our present one.

  • 1 vote
#6.19 - Sun Jan 1, 2012 2:44 PM EST
Reply
mary beth de poutiloff

Thank you, for the time you have devoted to this most worthy cause. Sadly, the corporatists that own governments care little about anything but profits. Perhaps, the Occupy bunch? We have to remain hopeful.

  • 4 votes
Reply#7 - Sat Nov 5, 2011 8:55 AM EDT
BK Lim

Yes MaryBeth. We are like the frogs being boiled alive. We do not feel the heat until the $hit hits the fence.

In Bangkok's case, when the flood is already threatening the industrial estates and inner city, do they sit up and start grabbing any straw. Same with the financial situation and the oil industry. The rot had been slowly creeping up on us.

I used to lose sleep over this but not anymore. It would have depressed me more. Going from depart to department and agencies to agencies were even more depressing. So now I throw the solution to the public at large for the people to wake up.

Italy just had its worst floods. Wonder who is next?

  • 5 votes
#7.1 - Sat Nov 5, 2011 1:20 PM EDT
fishwarrior

Italy just had its worst floods. Wonder who is next?

I guess its whereever HAARP decides!

  • 5 votes
#7.2 - Sat Nov 5, 2011 1:22 PM EDT
Reply
RON-1137649

As I understand your diagrams . As you put a large amount of water back into the permeable beds . In time as they fill , water will return back to the top . Where electrical power could be produced .

While they're trying to scare us into believng , we're running out of water . Trillions of gallons are let out to sea every day . If it was put under ground . It could be used over and over again ? While bringing us back to a balance of nature , that hasn't been seen for thousands of years .

There are to many nay-sayers to your idea . Unthinking , we would be better off 30 , 50 , 100 years from now .

  • 1 vote
Reply#8 - Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:36 PM EST
BK Lim

The key fact ....is efffective use of permeable faults since permeable beds/formation deep underground (>100 to thousands of metres deep) may be too costly to access by drilling or tunnelling. Tunnelling and drilling only where necessary to connect the fault zones.

  • 1 vote
#8.1 - Sun Jan 1, 2012 2:48 PM EST
BK Lim

We may never see it in our lifetime. It is my contribution to society and not meant for personal profit. Bu when the environmental problems start to become insurmountable, this is the most cost effective way.

Like the idea of Vegan, more and more people are starting to see the sense of our long term survival and well-being. I too have become vegan some months ago. It will take time to hydro-balance the planet. Too much fresh water in our surface hydrosphere is the root cause of the high frequency of catastrophic climate change. Our civilisation for the last 5000 years and natural drainage since the last Ice Age (17000 years ago) had transferred too much water from the deep hydrosphere.

In your comments somewhere, yes...filling and lubrcating the major fault zones with water helps to reduce catastrophic shllow earthquakes (not the deep ones which are less destructive anyway).

  • 1 vote
#8.2 - Sun Jan 1, 2012 2:58 PM EST
BK Lim

BTW 2012 is the year of the Water Dragon. We are in for some severe water related problems.

  • 1 vote
#8.3 - Sun Jan 1, 2012 3:01 PM EST
BK Lim

Where electrical power could be produced .

As it would be inefficient to drill deep (dual use) water wells just anywhere, we use surface drainage system to collect the water into a collecting reservoir (surface ponds or underground caverns). A similar "Archimedes screw" device or generators (depending on the colume of flow) can be used to generate electricity as controlled volume of water passed through the vertical adits.

  • 1 vote
#8.4 - Sun Jan 1, 2012 3:27 PM EST
RON-1137649

As I understand , what your saying in comments #8.1 , #8.2 ,#8.3 and #8.4 Is giving me the answer to my question , about mankind bringing the earth back into a balance with nature .

Not having to drill so deep , but finding the fault line and drilling to it . Just like an oasis , uses the faultline . To bring the water from the mountains to the desert .
Protecting the earth , by putting the lubrcation back into the slow moving parts . While at present , we've got all the weight of the water on the surface and sucking out more every day .
The earth's plateletsare making a protest .of carrying all the weight of the water on top .

Something that I've been question of , for years . While we suck so much water out of the ground every day and don't return any . What about one of the other lubricants within our earth ? We suck billions of barrels of oil out every day . Are they replacing it with anything ?

Are you , now me , among the few who see the lubricants must be returned , replaced ?

While you start this article out , telling about the problems of flooding . You give an answer to that problem .But within that answer , is a solution to a number of other problems .
Am I seeing this correctly ?
RON

    #8.5 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:24 AM EST
    Reply
    RON-1137649

    I have a new question for today .Part of the head lines of today . 7.0 earthquake hits eastern Japan .

    My question is . If we were to pump more water into the permeable beds . Would they become more fluid ? If so . What would be the reaction during an earthquake ?
    I would like to think . It would help the earth absorb the shock and there be less damage . on the surface .

    Sorry , maybe this is taught in the first few week of collage geology . I'm just trying to grab hold of your idea . I refuse to sit and be mindless . Please help , simple minded Ron learn .
    Maybe when you post part II , I'll understand more . Till then , help me understand the first part .
    RON

    • 1 vote
    Reply#9 - Sun Jan 1, 2012 10:07 AM EST
    BK Lim

    If we were to pump more water into the permeable beds . Would they become more fluid ? If so . What would be the reaction during an earthquake ?

    No we do not pump (only in emergency) but let the water flow downwards by gravity.

    No the permeable beds do not become more fluid...(or soggy if that is what you mean). Only clayey ground on the surface becomes soggy when wet because clay absorbed water and expand in volume (depending on which type). In deep formation, clay beds cannot expand and hence impermeable. In permeable beds (sandstones and other hardrock formations) the water seeps into the cracks or voids within the formation or beds. Hence there is no expansion to the overall volume of the bed or formation. The water replaces the air in the voids.

    Imagine billions of cubic metre of water and hence the continental masses become heavier and more evenly distributed in weight. Shallow quakes are also the result of uneven weight distribution and stresses built up between crustal blocks. On their own, the stresses would not be sufficient to trigger an earthquake but once the instability from deeper quakes starts; there are bound to be aftershocks and shallow crustal adjustment. Besides there are also differential movement in the oceanic and continental crusts. There is also vertical stresses which are not prsently recognised.

      #9.1 - Sun Jan 1, 2012 3:20 PM EST
      RON-1137649

      While you speak of clay and say (depending on which type ). Over in Mississippi . There is a type of clay , called Yazoo clay . The seam of clay starts around Yazoo City , Mississippi and runs south through Jackson . When it gets wet , sections of the interstate will pop up or drop down several inches . Driving a tractor trailer across that area can be a test of your skills .

      Where I live , there is coal , lime stone ,sandstone , and iron ore . One of the few places on earth where all the ingredients for steel are found close to one another .

      As you explain above , about the weight distribution . This really makes me wonder about all the dams built and water weight . About all the large buildings built side by side .
      Is this just a huge gamble mankind is taking ?

      While we suck so much water out from under ground . We keep adding more weight above ground .

      Allow me to ask a dumb question . When they build a large building . Do they add together all the weight of the building material ? I know they account for every nail , board and brick . But do they put a figure on how much it weighs ? How many billions of tons does a large city push down on the earth ? How much vertical stress ?
      RON

        #9.2 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 2:48 AM EST
        Reply
        RON-1137649

        I was clicking off here , and had a thought . I hope you can see the humor in this .
        I spent five years at a collage . I worked as a campus police officer . Didn't learn a dam thing . L O L
        That was my mindless gold brick job .
        RON

        • 1 vote
        Reply#10 - Sun Jan 1, 2012 10:23 AM EST
        mightyj

        That was a lot of reading. The environment has been a mess since the spill but I thought that was just a warming trend coupled with a high point in some 50 year oscillating temperature cycles and what-not. The ocean has been warm lately here in the East but in other places it has been quite cool. Norway has never had better fishing in all of their known history. Some places are working well. The US has a lot of bad waste-water coming off of the cities. The amount of prescription meds in the waste-water is enough to kill anything, wake it up, and kill it again.

        It is viagravating to be blamed for society's fu$k ups but that is the lot of the fisherman down stream of every pissing a-hole.......and then we've got oil spills...... I guess they might as well bomb us too.

        • 1 vote
        Reply#11 - Thu May 3, 2012 2:45 AM EDT
        BK Lim

        Mightyj

        There will always be pockets of heaven among the devastation. We have some of the hottest and driest spells here. Higher water content in the atmosphere is the main cause strangely because it prevents heat transfer and increase volatility; making some places very wet and others very dry. Extreme weather is the result of atmospheric insulation of heat and moisture giving rise to extremes in high and low atmospheric pressures.

        There are obvious slow evolving global trends with interacting with short term spikes. it is the invisible global trends that worries me. Water being one of the main entities of this planet is constant on the whole (planet) but unbalanced between the deep and surface hydrosphere.

        The only way the Mammoth fossil could have fresh tropical vegetation in its stomach was by sudden flooding (within days catastrophic event), not continental drift, polar drift or sudden climate change which took years later after the Mammoth had been preserved by rapid burial.

        How can you have sudden catastrophic biblical flooding? The huge amount of downpour had to come from the high water moisture content in the atmosphere. The water load had to build up through decades of cyclic trends.

        In other words, like a capacitor, the charging phase is long and the discharge phase short and sudden triggered by an even sharper spiking event or series of them (a meteor strike, a major volcanic eruption etc)

        So do we opt for the rapid discharge (catastrophic climate change) or a gradual change like the charging phase?

        If you notice since the last ice age, there has been net outflow from the deep hydrosphere into the surface hydrosphere. If we were to design an intake at the river mouth to return the "fresh water" into the continental interior mass through the permeable fault zones on a daily basis, imagine how much water moisture we can remove from the atmosphere? Within a few years we should start to see gradually improving weather instead of continual onslaught of extreme weather conditions.

        Straight away we can see positive changes. For one the HAARP will be less effective as they too depend on heavy moisture content to work their destruction. Water is 781.25 times heavier than the air it replaces. It will make the continental crust heavier and more stable in the long run and less prone to shallow quake movements. There are other advantages besides preventing floods, droughts, forest fires, renewal clean energy source, renewable supply of fresh clean water, cleansing of toxic water (like in the Gulf) etc.

        In the last example, there are over 4,000 old platforms and many times more deep oil wells which can be converted cheaply to clean the toxic Gulf water. We can back flow the toxic water thru these wells back into the depleted oil reservoirs and new ones. We can apply various Bioremediation process. One of the main opposition to Bio-remediation has been the "unknown effect of wide application". If we channel the bioremediated water into the reservoirs we can monitor them and check on their quality and observed the long term effects.

        Like I said there are eco-friendly geological solutions. We are just not thinking out of the box. We keep going for the "slash and kill" exploration and mining ways of the barbarians and not the elegant ways of "recycling and balancing" the Planet's health.

        If the thousands and millions of coastal river mouths can be converted to fresh water recycling intake, there will never be a need for another oil well. We can have all the cheap clean electrical power we need. The oil industry workers can be converted to Clean Energy workers as new multiple usage deep wells (or a better term - multiple usage vertical conduits MUVC) will need the drilling technology & expertise of the old oil industry.

        No control of the oil means the end of the War on Terror and the stranglehold of the Oil Mafia. A pipe dream? No if more people think out of the box.

        • 1 vote
        Reply#12 - Thu May 3, 2012 10:21 AM EDT
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